Why are Germans better at digging than Russians?

[postfux]

Not sure if this is adding to the discussion, but when my sister was making her garden she got complimented she would dig like a russian woman by someone who should know.

[thedoctorking]

That "not everybody had a rifle" thing is part of the Great Patriotic War popular culture legend. I'm pretty sure it was rare to have folks without even personal weapons on the front line. That said, there were plenty of Soviet units that went into action with gross shortages of ammo, support weapons, etc.

So, regarding the opening scene of "Enemy at the Gates", the Guards division that we see attacking had just arrived by train on the eastern shore of the Volga and manpower was desperately needed to defend the ferry landings. So despite the fact that their support weapons were several trains back and wouldn't be unloaded for a couple of days, they were rushed into battle. They had plenty of rifles, just no artillery or other heavy weapons (a "hasty attack" in game terms).

The Soviet leadership became much more careful of conserving manpower after the spring of 1942 when Zhukov convinced Stalin to back off day-to-day military leadership. So again, the screaming wave of ant-like Russians vision of the war only refers to the first year or so, mostly.

[PPetar]

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

That "not everybody had a rifle" thing is part of the Great Patriotic War popular culture legend. I'm pretty sure it was rare to have folks without even personal weapons on the front line. That said, there were plenty of Soviet units that went into action with gross shortages of ammo, support weapons, etc.

So, regarding the opening scene of "Enemy at the Gates", the Guards division that we see attacking had just arrived by train on the eastern shore of the Volga and manpower was desperately needed to defend the ferry landings. So despite the fact that their support weapons were several trains back and wouldn't be unloaded for a couple of days, they were rushed into battle. They had plenty of rifles, just no artillery or other heavy weapons (a "hasty attack" in game terms).

The Soviet leadership became much more careful of conserving manpower after the spring of 1942 when Zhukov convinced Stalin to back off day-to-day military leadership. So again, the screaming wave of ant-like Russians vision of the war only refers to the first year or so, mostly.

That's pretty much how i understood it too...

[randallw]

Back to the fortification thing....

Maybe there's a bug in the database. The first Soviet sapper upgrade ( happens towards the end of the 3rd quarter of 1941 ) causes them to be produced for parts of two months, then there are no more sappers produced until the last quarter of 1942. Maybe the end date of the first upgrade is supposed to be 1942?

I mentioned this problem in the tech support thread; it hasn't been handled yet.

[thedoctorking]

ORIGINAL: randallw

Back to the fortification thing....

Maybe there's a bug in the database. The first Soviet sapper upgrade ( happens towards the end of the 3rd quarter of 1941 ) causes them to be produced for parts of two months, then there are no more sappers produced until the last quarter of 1942. Maybe the end date of the first upgrade is supposed to be 1942?

I mentioned this problem in the tech support thread; it hasn't been handled yet.

This was fixed in the newest patch. Make sure you are fully updated.

[Dinglir]

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

That "not everybody had a rifle" thing is part of the Great Patriotic War popular culture legend. I'm pretty sure it was rare to have folks without even personal weapons on the front line. That said, there were plenty of Soviet units that went into action with gross shortages of ammo, support weapons, etc.

So, regarding the opening scene of "Enemy at the Gates", the Guards division that we see attacking had just arrived by train on the eastern shore of the Volga and manpower was desperately needed to defend the ferry landings. So despite the fact that their support weapons were several trains back and wouldn't be unloaded for a couple of days, they were rushed into battle. They had plenty of rifles, just no artillery or other heavy weapons (a "hasty attack" in game terms).

The Soviet leadership became much more careful of conserving manpower after the spring of 1942 when Zhukov convinced Stalin to back off day-to-day military leadership. So again, the screaming wave of ant-like Russians vision of the war only refers to the first year or so, mostly.

One of the sources I know of, was a description of the Soviet style of attack made by a Danish SS soldier, describing the battle of the Demyansk pocket in early spring 1942 (my own translation from Danish to English): "It was like, how to say it, a horde that came charging. It was only the ones in front that had weapons. When they fell, the next ones grapped the weapon, and then yelled 'Huzzah'! It was as simple as lying there picking them off one by one. Ammunition was no issue to us."

[randallw]

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

ORIGINAL: randallw

Back to the fortification thing....

Maybe there's a bug in the database. The first Soviet sapper upgrade ( happens towards the end of the 3rd quarter of 1941 ) causes them to be produced for parts of two months, then there are no more sappers produced until the last quarter of 1942. Maybe the end date of the first upgrade is supposed to be 1942?

I mentioned this problem in the tech support thread; it hasn't been handled yet.

This was fixed in the newest patch. Make sure you are fully updated.

I have version 1.11 of the game. According to the gamemenu window it is the latest update.

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: randallw

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

ORIGINAL: randallw

Back to the fortification thing....

Maybe there's a bug in the database. The first Soviet sapper upgrade ( happens towards the end of the 3rd quarter of 1941 ) causes them to be produced for parts of two months, then there are no more sappers produced until the last quarter of 1942. Maybe the end date of the first upgrade is supposed to be 1942?

I mentioned this problem in the tech support thread; it hasn't been handled yet.

This was fixed in the newest patch. Make sure you are fully updated.

I have version 1.11 of the game. According to the gamemenu window it is the latest update.

May want to check for 1.11.01 - the latest public beta perhaps?

[randallw]

I've installed 1.11.01; the 1941 sappers still have the same cutoff date for their end production.

[morvael]

This was done on purpose, ask Denniss. It's not a code change, it's data change.

[randallw]

Is this to mean that the Soviets, in real life events, didn't train new sappers for a whole year?

[56ajax]

Everyone knows that the Germans had bigger spades than the Russians [:)]

Sorry...