C-47/R4D Differences

[afspret]

Been monkeying around with the Guadalcanal scenario and noticed the USN/USMC R4D has longer ranges than the AAF C-47. Is that by design or an oversight? I compared the two in some of the other scenarios and they have the same ranges.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: afspret

Been monkeying around with the Guadalcanal scenario and noticed the USN/USMC R4D has longer ranges than the AAF C-47. Is that by design or an oversight? I compared the two in some of the other scenarios and they have the same ranges.

I don't know for sure, but I seem to recall reading that the transports sometimes carried a couple of .50 cal MGs and gunners. They removed the side windows to allow firing. That extra weight would reduce either cargo carried or fuel.

Since Guadalcanal is a short scenario with contested airspace over the island, I could see the designers modeling an armed C-47, but not wanting to impose the loss of range on C-47s in the Grand Campaign where arming the transports was probably rare.

[JeffroK]

I have never heard of C47's being armed with 50cal, best is that in the ETO windows had a small port which enabled small arms like Stens to be fired. Bloody useless but makes the passenger happy.

[JeffroK]

Looking into the editor, Scen1 & Scen4 in both cases the C47 & R4D have the same endurance and cruising speeds. However Scen 4 gives both an extra 5 hexes of Ferry Range. Maybe to allow transfer in particular circumstance?

The only variation can be found in the RAF Dakota III & Li2P having longer endurance and cruising speed.

But, in Scen4 the C47 shows ranges of 35/12/10 hexes (1391/453/362 miles) and the R4D-1 70/23/19 hexes (2782/905/724 miles)
As this appears to be a manually entered value I believe its a typo and not a deliberate entry as research shows the C47 had a max range of 1600 miles.

[m10bob]

In game, many of the planes' ranges do not reflect accurate real life ranges.
The C 47 model should be able to fly from Frisco to Pearl but I have seen some scenarios which would not allow this.

The original designers had a hard enough job with individual model research, then having to compensate for map distances (not using a peeled orange map for instance), and then having to abstract just enough to make the planes behave in a somewhat uniform manner with each other.

Making a change to one plane, no matter how minuscule, will affect every other plane in the game, in some way.

I have about as many reference books as anybody, and learned to fly on an old WW2 era Piper J 3, so have been involved in that era of aviation, (and WW1) since the fifties.)
Look carefully at the windows and you can see the small openings for the passengers to poke small arms from.
This plane was used "in theater" for our game.

[Spookyac47]

ORIGINAL: afspret

Been monkeying around with the Guadalcanal scenario and noticed the USN/USMC R4D has longer ranges than the AAF C-47. Is that by design or an oversight? I compared the two in some of the other scenarios and they have the same ranges.

I don't know for sure, but I seem to recall reading that the transports sometimes carried a couple of .50 cal MGs and gunners. They removed the side windows to allow firing. That extra weight would reduce either cargo carried or fuel.

Since Guadalcanal is a short scenario with contested airspace over the island, I could see the designers modeling an armed C-47, but not wanting to impose the loss of range on C-47s in the Grand Campaign where arming the transports was probably rare.

During the Vietnam war, 53 C-47 aircraft were converted into gunships. They were reclassified as AC-47D (AC=Attack Cargo". The larger of the two rear cargo doors was removed. Initially, two 7.62 six-barreled miniguns were placed on the left side of the cargo bay with the barrels poking out of the rear two passenger windows. The third minigun was mounted in the cargo door opening. The miniguns had a fire rate of either 3,000 rounds per minute or 6,000 rounds per minute. The aircraft also carried 1 million candlepower parachute flares. The pilot had a gunsight (same as used in A-1E aircraft) in the side window. The pilot would fly in a circle, generally around 3,000 ft altitude above ground and fire into the center of the circle. The normal process was to fire one gun for a 3-5 second burst on a low fire rate (3,000 round per minute), realign the sight on the target, if needed and repeat the 3-5 second burst. The aircraft usually carried 21,000 rounds of ammo on a mission. By firing in short bursts, it allowed the gun barrels to not overheat, stretched out the ammo supply and allowed the aircraft and crew to loiter longer and provide extended support. The aircraft normally only flew at night as they were slow-flying targets.
They were initially labeled "Puff, The Magic Dragon because every fifth round of ammo was a tracer. Their call sign would eventually be Spooky. I was a crew chief at Danang Airbase, Vietnam, from November 1968 - November 69 on AC-47D 43-49211. Eventually a hole would be cut in the side of the fuselage between the second gun and the cargo door with the third minigun being moved to that location to leave the cargo door entry clear.
The R-4D was a Navy version of the C-47. The later versions of the R-4D had different engines so could get a bit more range from their fuel. Only the C-47 was converted to the gunships.

[JeffroK]

In Vietnam the USAAF used Jet Fighters for ground support, is that relevant to a WW2 environment????

[Dewey169]

In Vietnam the USAAF used Jet Fighters for ground support, is that relevant to a WW2 environment????

Actually you’re wrong, there were a lot of prop aircraft used in Viet Nam. One famous aircraft that had its roots from WW2 was the A1 sky raider. It was used by all the services including the Air Force in a close air support and SAR missions.

Are we getting off of the OT …. Probably…