Can you sell me on this game?

[heliodorus04]

Someone asked me to play War in the East, and I thought 'meh' - it's operational logistics mess can't be fixed, and the black box of the combat system was not to my liking. The way the game played in player vs. player never really appealed to me, because it was so far abstracted from reasonable interpretations of history (IMHO, obviously).

I've owned War in the East since original release. I played it a ton, especially with custom difficulty against the AI, where I had a lot of fun playing the Axis throughout the war. But ultimately, the logistics system...

So I've always been tempted on War in the West; but the Air War actually strikes me as a giant pain in the behind that won't add much to my enjoyment of the game. HOWEVER, if you play another human, and they are masters of it while I'm only interested in automated AI routines being executed, I'm going to lose to that player. So how does it play vs. an AI Axis or an AI Allied side?

[loki100]

vs the Axis AI this is an excellent game.

At challenging the AI is strong enough to make you work, it has no real strategic choices to make (so can't fall over there) and while it makes some placement errors in general it defends very well.

That then makes the game from the allies as a large exercise in problem solving.

How do I sustain the strategic airwar, how far do I stick to the political and generic targets, what happens if I bomb out German truck production? Medium tanks?

The tactical air war is a bit simpler in some ways, your main choices are to use your airforce directly at the battlefield or to hit the logistics and enemy movement. Also its worth taking out railyards as they are the key to the supply model.

Also, worth noting that WiTE2 uses the same system.

I had the same concern about the air war model but I really like it.

In addition, you can automate all or most of the airwar. If you do this, in a AI game, it'll do a decent job for you. All you do is to set broad parameters - bomb this, hit this sort of target and the AI constructs the missions and carries them out.

If you are interested in an AI game, have a wee look at the AAR I'm currently doing.

[GeneralDad]

I don't think I can sell you on the game - you seem like you don't want the complexity - and the richness - of this game.

Personally, I like the logistics system. I think it adds a lot of realism and is not difficult to master once you get some basic concepts. It places some realism on unit movement.

The game is very much an air war with a strong ground component. Unlike loki100 I find it necessary as WA to manage air much more than just using the AI. If I use the AI air on the first turn of the 43-45 campaign as WA, I lost, as an example, 685 aircraft, LW losses were only 287. By managing the air war in more detail, I got my losses down to 548, and more importantly, LW losses up to 489. Plus I did good damage to some German cities. Unescorted bombers still take high losses, my greater number of sorties means more operational losses, but attacking the LW directly paid some dividends. My air war is still not A+, but, yes, the air war is an important component of the game and it takes time to learn. I am still learning...

When I played as Axis in Italy, the AI WA was a disaster. So I play as WA since the Axis AI does a mostly decent job of it. Especially with the beta patch.

GeneralDad

[IslandInland]

It's the only game available that covers this theatre in this amount of detail and depth.

If you are interested in this theatre at this scale then the game sells itself.

[heliodorus04]

Listen, Yoda, I've played Advanced Squad Leader for 30 years...

Just because it's inside a big, black box, don't mistake the engines inside WITW as complex. But thanks for the feigned insult; I know them well from the days of the fanbois and the Sovi-o-philes (TM, me). I'm a bit of an alpha and omega in that regard.

Go ask Joel Billings about the 29th Motorized Division, and see if he still has seizures (sorry Joel...)

[rico21]

I did not play at ASL for thirty years, which allowed me to play countless other games that made me the player I am today.
This game is excellent but it requires a time of investment that I do not have.
If I had the time to ask myself whether to buy it or not, I'll use that time to play it.

[heliodorus04]

Is there a meaningful difference between purchasing this game on Steam or direct from Matrix?
Somehow, I own War in the East on both...

[RedLancer]

If you buy through Matrix you can get a Steam key. You don't get a Matrix serial number if you purchase through Steam. Also as I understand the steam T&Cs you rent their games - you don't actually own them.

[heliodorus04]

I'm in. Saved $5 on Torch too (buying via Matrix direct).
I didn't remember how I had a Steam code for WitE, so that explains it. THanks.
I'm looking forward to it.

[IslandInland]

Welcome to the Western Front. [:)]