Loading Oil problem?

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Never ever transport oil as Allies, fuel is always better economically.
Unless you are running away from DEI in 41-42 and not have any fuel left to take with you.

I disagree with that. True, as the Allies you don't need to ship oil except from the DEI but unlike you I'd ship oil before fuel. One oil converts to 1 supply and 9 fuel therefore to me it's economically better to ship oil. Operational wise it might not be the case.

Not all scenarios use that model of supply production at refineries.

[BillBrown]

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Never ever transport oil as Allies, fuel is always better economically.
Unless you are running away from DEI in 41-42 and not have any fuel left to take with you.

I disagree with that. True, as the Allies you don't need to ship oil except from the DEI but unlike you I'd ship oil before fuel. One oil converts to 1 supply and 9 fuel therefore to me it's economically better to ship oil. Operational wise it might not be the case.

I know of no scenario that this is true.

[crsutton]

Yes, as far as I know this has been patched out. Not sure if it is still in the stock scenarios. I can't think of any mod that still has oil production creating supply.

[BillBrown]

Stock scenarios still produce supply from refineries, but a refinery requires 10 oil to produce 9 fuel and 1 supply in stock and in most mod scenarios only 9 fuel is output.

[rsallen64]

As many have mentioned, I do not see the point (at this point) of shipping any oil to Oz. I have, and still do, make regular tanker runs from the WC of the US to Oz with fuel. The DEI is still holding out is some places (May '42, Batavia, Palembang, Soerebaja), but the rest is all AI captured and what is still holding out is covered by ships and LBA, so it's much too dangerous to move oil from there. I also move fuel in tankers from Abadan regularly as well.

My only goal was to keep the refinery in Melbourne running in top condition after getting a Tracker notice that it was short of oil. It is not now, so the point is largely moot. I was attempting to get a handle on the logistics, but it seems that I am doing fine because at this point no base is short on supplies and everything seems to be flowing ok.

I did read the threads about shipping oil and fuel on xAKs and xAKLs so was aware of that, but I missed the bit about the refinery requirements in LA, so thanks for that. That's what's so great about this forum: there's always bits of information that comes to you in response to a question, and it usually comes fast, and often times it's not what you were expecting. Thanks again, all! [&o]

[anarchyintheuk]

There is a small oil deficit vis a vis refining capacity in Australia (at least in stock), hence the point of shipping oil there. For the ocd types amongst us this is an issue. It's easier to load up DEI oil and transport it from there than from the US. If you don't get enough out of the DEI before it's conquered, you can always load an occasional tk from Abadan w/ the surplus there.

[Macclan5]

Minority Report : [8D]

I do not necessarily disagree with most of the points made in this thread.

Especially and I note: it is more efficient to ship fuel than oil to Australia. Quicker load time, easier access at ports in Continental USA and India / Capetown / Med.

However I will only note:

During 1942 and early 1943 : While it may be less efficient - shipping 50M or 100M oil from Madras (for example) with a couple / few low endurance tankers (range 8800) and a British KV (or 2) to Perth helps smooth out fuel delivery to Australia. You can use low risk shipping way points well west of the Coco Islands much like your Capetown routes to Perth or Adelaide.

In stock:

1) Oil is created at Ledo surplus
2) You can pump a few extra gallons into India with 1 low value tanker - infrequent and not a loss of productivity.
3) You can create "demand" at Madras which is usually developed as a significant port

and

4) It is easy to run Capetown dry of fuel in 1942 1943 running to Perth
5) While you can run fuel from East USA to Capetown - it is a time consuming process in itself
6) While you can run fuel to India and then hub and spoke to Perth from an India port - it requires double loading / unloading.

A few 1000 of oil to Australia : (i) from DEI as you pull out and (ii) from India will create a surplus in Sydney that lasts a number of months. That oil (plus resources) will be converted to fuel (and supply) over time...as I recall Melbourne and Sydney burn 6900 (demand) a month or do.

Which in summary is just a method 'smooth out' the gaps between massive tanker convoys that take time to load / wait / divert.

Very little investment for always having fuel for your surface task forces near "Townsville" for example.

[BBfanboy]

Not sure what you meant about "(plus resources)"- there are no resources used in conversion of oil to fuel. Did you mean plus refineries (a necessary asset for the conversion) or just compress the chain Oil->Fuel-> (HI + Resources + Fuel) = Supply a bit? [ I know there are also HI points produced but the Allies basically can't use them].

[Dili]

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

Stock scenarios still produce supply from refineries, but a refinery requires 10 oil to produce 9 fuel and 1 supply in stock and in most mod scenarios only 9 fuel is output.

How can you change that in stock scenarios?

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Dili

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

Stock scenarios still produce supply from refineries, but a refinery requires 10 oil to produce 9 fuel and 1 supply in stock and in most mod scenarios only 9 fuel is output.

How can you change that in stock scenarios?

Why would you want to? If you want a mod, get a mod.

[Korvar]

Thanks all who responded regarding the use of AK types for liquid transport. I believe it was one of the devs (I know who but won't name names) who made a comment regarding lack of drums for mass transport, so I took it at face value.

Funny thing is I don't recall drums really being discussed in Beans, Bullets, and Black Oil although I recall the scarcity of fresh water was mentioned. I want to say only two islands in the whole Central Pacific had any substantial amount of fresh water, and its scarcity was critical enough that more than a few tankers carried water in lieu of petroleum products. The wide variety of specializations in transports was also discussed (for example, 'reefers' for perishable products).

Amazing to think that the staffs which planned all the logistics didn't even have the benefit of a computer to sort it all.

[Dili]

Chickenboy i mean how to change that in a mod i am making.

[BillBrown]

ORIGINAL: Dili

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

Stock scenarios still produce supply from refineries, but a refinery requires 10 oil to produce 9 fuel and 1 supply in stock and in most mod scenarios only 9 fuel is output.

How can you change that in stock scenarios?

The editor is a good place to visit.

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Never ever transport oil as Allies, fuel is always better economically.
Unless you are running away from DEI in 41-42 and not have any fuel left to take with you.

I disagree with that. True, as the Allies you don't need to ship oil except from the DEI but unlike you I'd ship oil before fuel. One oil converts to 1 supply and 9 fuel therefore to me it's economically better to ship oil. Operational wise it might not be the case.

Not all scenarios use that model of supply production at refineries.

True, but it still stands. Whether it's 9 fuel, 10 fuel or 10 fuel + 1 supply I'd always ship oil before fuel.

[Dili]

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

ORIGINAL: Dili

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

Stock scenarios still produce supply from refineries, but a refinery requires 10 oil to produce 9 fuel and 1 supply in stock and in most mod scenarios only 9 fuel is output.

How can you change that in stock scenarios?

The editor is a good place to visit.

Ok, got it in devices tab.

[Yaab]

ORIGINAL: Korvar

Thanks all who responded regarding the use of AK types for liquid transport. I believe it was one of the devs (I know who but won't name names) who made a comment regarding lack of drums for mass transport, so I took it at face value.

Funny thing is I don't recall drums really being discussed in Beans, Bullets, and Black Oil although I recall the scarcity of fresh water was mentioned. I want to say only two islands in the whole Central Pacific had any substantial amount of fresh water, and its scarcity was critical enough that more than a few tankers carried water in lieu of petroleum products. The wide variety of specializations in transports was also discussed (for example, 'reefers' for perishable products).

Amazing to think that the staffs which planned all the logistics didn't even have the benefit of a computer to sort it all.

I guess USA had other manufacturing priorities in WW2 other than mass-producing oil barrels.

tm.asp?m=3742111&mpage=1&key=&#3742111
Post #2


"A T-2 tanker had a capacity of 141,000 oil barrels, which is around 6 million US gallons. Put into 55 gallon barrels used in WW II, it would take around 108,000. Small quantities of fuel were moved in barrels for special purposes. Mostly aviation fuel when there was no alternative, such as in the darkest days at Guadalcanal or flying av gas over the Hump into China".

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

There is a small oil deficit vis a vis refining capacity in Australia (at least in stock), hence the point of shipping oil there. For the ocd types amongst us this is an issue. It's easier to load up DEI oil and transport it from there than from the US. If you don't get enough out of the DEI before it's conquered, you can always load an occasional tk from Abadan w/ the surplus there.

Bolded the most important point in the entire thread. Don't talk to me about what's "efficient" or "necessary". There's a refinery in Australia demanding oil, and by god I'm going to send them as much as I can! [:)]

[Admiral DadMan]

ORIGINAL: Kull

Bolded the most important point in the entire thread. Don't talk to me about what's "efficient" or "necessary". There's a refinery in Australia demanding oil, and by god I'm going to send them as much as I can! [:)]

+1 [:D]

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Kull

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

There is a small oil deficit vis a vis refining capacity in Australia (at least in stock), hence the point of shipping oil there. For the ocd types amongst us this is an issue. It's easier to load up DEI oil and transport it from there than from the US. If you don't get enough out of the DEI before it's conquered, you can always load an occasional tk from Abadan w/ the surplus there.

Bolded the most important point in the entire thread. Don't talk to me about what's "efficient" or "necessary". There's a refinery in Australia demanding oil, and by god I'm going to send them as much as I can! [:)]

With you on this one. I'm also the type who siphons off a bit of the fuel delivery to Auckland to send a smidgen to Christchurch to keep the HI working.

I also set up a CS convoy of one short legged xAKL from Hilo to Pearl to keep the LI working.

Where I see a need I attempt to meet it.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: Kull

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

There is a small oil deficit vis a vis refining capacity in Australia (at least in stock), hence the point of shipping oil there. For the ocd types amongst us this is an issue. It's easier to load up DEI oil and transport it from there than from the US. If you don't get enough out of the DEI before it's conquered, you can always load an occasional tk from Abadan w/ the surplus there.

Bolded the most important point in the entire thread. Don't talk to me about what's "efficient" or "necessary". There's a refinery in Australia demanding oil, and by god I'm going to send them as much as I can! [:)]

With you on this one. I'm also the type who siphons off a bit of the fuel delivery to Auckland to send a smidgen to Christchurch to keep the HI working.

I also set up a CS convoy of one short legged xAKL from Hilo to Pearl to keep the LI working.

Where I see a need I attempt to meet it.

Alright! The fans of this game need an updated version that will run more efficiently on current hardware and O/S and include a long list of feature additions or updates! Let us know when you are done! [:)]