Crispy vs Sugar - Mini AAR

[crispy131313]

ORIGINAL: Azhraden

Hello,

Very interesting AAR...

could you post a map of the eastern front ?

Thanks

Azh

Here is a map of the eastern front (units removed).

[crispy131313]

September 23, 1941

The Eastern Front

Germany continues their slow but steady march forward into Soviet territory (see above image). The Axis have many of it's strongest units fighting in North Africa still which could be delaying their advance. The Soviets already display Infantry II, Tanks II, Anti-Air II and are beginning to form stronger defensive positions as reinforcements take the field.

Middle East

Germany has captured all of the abandoned British colonies and have liberated Syria.

Algeria

The Axis are massing in Algeria in what may be a gambit to capture Casablanca and sway Franco to join the Axis. Air reconnaissance reports:

[Sugar]

To be precise, the german-italian battlegroup is consisting of 2 HQs, 4 fighters, 3 med. and tac. bombers each, 1 mar. bomber, 1 tank, 2 paras and the whole Regia Marina. Probably better used here than in russian winter.

German income has reached 967 MPPs/turn, US's leaning is 72%, Spain's 52% (didn't notice any hit so far, only those 2 by events).

[Harun]

So, the primary goal is to get Spain with that much airpower!

Also, interesting counter by crispy. Exciting AAR, guys.

[Sugar]

The early victory in Egypt makes Spain probably a bit obsolete, but beside that, Gibraltar's strategic meaning is evident. As I mentioned, I simply can`t ignore Algeria in Allie`s hands, and if I have to do it anyway, I'll try anything to secure success.

The RM is necessary to secure the fragile supply route, and the Luftwaffe to secure the RM. At least someone has to destroy defending units, 2 paras aren't able to do it within reasonable time.

[Sugar]

[/img]

Turns out to become a very stoney road - for both opponents. A german mar. bomber sunk a brit. carrier, detected by a nearby sub, without any losses. The defenders of Fez are also destroyed, but the para retreats in view of the brit. tank force.

[Sugar]

[/img]

Current situation: 2 of the brit. tanks are destroyed, as well as one of their HQs. The appearing of an am. strat. bomber shows the happening during Chrispy's turn: USA joined the Allies early dec.. I'm expecting my esteemed opponent to immediately invest all the am. Chits into Spain, providing him with a chance of 20%/turn to decrease Franco's pro Axis' leaning. Since it`s taking an additional turn for the DE to fire, the race will continue.

German income has reached 1050 MPPs/turn with the developement of the 5. stage of industial research. Russian Winter has happened.

[room]

Spain is on the verge, close and fascinating chapter of this war.

[KorutZelva]

USA can only invest 2 chits in spain iirc. If both sides are at max chits, then the Axis as a 1% chance per turn to sway Spain.

[PvtBenjamin]

ORIGINAL: Sugar

[/img]

Current situation: 2 of the brit. tanks are destroyed, as well as one of their HQs. The appearing of an am. strat. bomber shows the happening during Chrispy's turn: USA joined the Allies early dec.. I'm expecting my esteemed opponent to immediately invest all the am. Chits into Spain, providing him with a chance of 20%/turn to decrease Franco's pro Axis' leaning. Since it`s taking an additional turn for the DE to fire, the race will continue.

German income has reached 1050 MPPs/turn with the developement of the 5. stage of industial research. Russian Winter has happened.

11 Axis air groups in the mountains of Morocco, the realism abounds. Thank you for proving my many posts on the mass air limitations of the game. Folks if you want to know why Sugar wins this is it in one picture. I really hope the developers are reading this.

[Taxman66]

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

USA can only invest 2 chits in spain iirc. If both sides are at max chits, then the Axis as a 1% chance per turn to sway Spain.

This is correct.

[Sugar]

Sure, sorry about that misinformation.

Another misleading was the DE not to fire the same turn Casablanca fell into Axis' hands; in fact it did immediately.

[crispy131313]

The Allies have resigned. I will report more tomorrow.

[jjdenver]

ORIGINAL: Sugar
[/img]

Honestly, this picture is ridiculous. Something has to be done about air. Maybe each HQ should only be able to support and give supply to 1 air unit, or maybe 2 air units. And the power of air strikes should be toned down or the expense of air replacements increased significantly. And maybe even a rule that air units can only base in clear terrain or cities. Also a rule that air units can't be adjacent to any other air unit. I like this game but it's really hard to take it even a little bit seriously unless something is done about airpower. This obviously isn't a super-realistic game but it has to be a little bit realistic. This is just silliness.

I recently had someone blow through Turkey in 2 (or maybe 3) turns by massing the whole Luftwaffe there and just destroying completely every Turkish unit that showed up. It's really a bit goofy - air should be a support arm, not the whole show.

[PvtBenjamin]

Many players have been questioning this for a long time. I doubt anything will change.

[Ktonos]

Guys, as Crispy said there are 1000 MPPs of HQs there. The player also chose to invest several hundreds of MPPs to operate some of these planes there, not counting the operating costs or time needed to move them back. This is an expensive and time consuming thing to do in game, no wonder not every one does it.

[Harun]

It suggests to me that DE-603 is overpowered in some way if that much firepower in one group is worth it. I guess its fairly safe because no allied units can damage German ground units enough, at that point in the game. The support role has been reversed.

By the way, the total value of the units is not important. Would you not buy that air force anyways, to fight in Russia? I think its the operating that is too cheap.

[Ktonos]

I meant the value of the extra HQs, not the bombers. Operating the HQs and the bombers to go and then return are the entire war production effort of a month. Yes, in my opinion either operating costs should scale with distance - maybe only for air units - and as I said in another thread dedicated to the subject, I think operating to North Africa maybe should have the air units be auto-hit, the severity of the hit being based on who controls Malta, Sicily and Crete.

But in the end none of this are game breakers to me. One person decided he wants to play the game the same way every time and he mastered that way. I doubt that all experienced axis players follow this sequence of moves.

[Sugar]

Spain is just beneficial, it`s the stragical meaning of Gibraltar which justifies the effort: with Gibraltar in Axis' hands the med. is closed; Rome, Cairo and the RM are safe. With a little luck allied players could take Italy out of war by occupying Rome, together with all their units, providing huge amounts of plunder bonus. Even if the Germans were able to retake Rome, the damage would be of strategical value. Cairo would be unobtainable against allied sea superiority.

The Axis will never be able to win a war in the long run, their forcepool can't compete with the allied, and their possible tech. advantage is also limited. Therefore they'll have to win a DV.

By the way, it would have been relatively easy to stop this advance.

[elxaime]

I feel somewhat better that even an elite Allied player has succumbed to the Crisp One, as I am currently being demolished as Allies by him in a game using his wonderful FWII v.15 mod. I am very grateful for the lesson, however painful, as I am learning a lot and this seems the best way to improve your skills. I have found that playing against the AI does not prepare you for PBEM other than basic mechanics - as Han Solo said, combat against remotes is one thing, against the living is another (RIP Han).

I have wracked my brain for a solution that allows Allies to hold Cairo against a good Axis player who commits substantial resources and I can't see how it can be done without denuding the UK and making a successful Sea Lion possible.

One Allied strategy may be to take the Soviet approach - just tech up the bare necessary to get infantry and antiaircraft levels up, use all the remaining MPs to stock Egypt early with as many corps and armies as you can, and pray you get infantry level 2 before the Axis tide submerges you. The UK will have a terrible economy and otherwise minimal tech aside from what they need to keep the Royal Navy and Fighters competitive, but the goal would be mere survival in Cairo. The downside is that even this may not be enough, especially if the Axis deploys a death star of massed bombers, in which case you have the worst of both worlds. Unlike the Soviet Union, there isn't much strategic depth in Egypt. Once you lose Cairo, you lose a lot of economy and what you are able to retreat to Palestine with just gets hounded and maybe some escape to Iraq, assuming you overthrew Rashid Ali.

I realize people don't like to give up their secrets, but if some expert level player were to post a Allied tutorial on how to hold the Middle East I would be an avid reader.

I have to add that in every PBEM I have been in as Allies, Cairo falls. It doesn't matter what you do, and your limits of resources and things like the concurrent crisis in Iraq add to the picture. Whatever deterrence there is to all-out Axis assault in the Mediterranean, they don't seem to deter anyone, which means the benefits consistently outweigh the drawbacks to the extent it is a no-brainer that happens 100 percent of the time (exceptions are new Axis players like myself who didn't get the memo or aren't skilled enough yet to make it happen). Again, would be interesting to hear more, as the designer has said the tourney results show more even outcomes in terms of the entire war. However I suspect that even the Allied victories include losing Cairo.