2.8.2 Potential Rules Violation

[rkr1958]

The situation. The USA is neutral and US entry options 11, US East Coast Escorts, and 29, North Atlantic Escorts, have been selected. German u-boats and the Italian sub have successfully found and isolated the 0-box off the East Coast, which contains CW, US convoys, RN and USN warships. The US opts to participate in the combat. In this example the axis subs sink 1 CP and force another 2 to abort.

What I believe may be a rules violation is that the allies can use US CP's to take losses, even though the US is still neutral.

I'm running MWiF version 2.8.2.

[rkr1958]

Game turn at the beginning of the naval combat phase.

[Centuur]

RAW:

11.5.4 Committing units
You must commit every non-SUB unit in the sea area to combat.

So: no bug. US convoys are included in this case.

[rkr1958]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

RAW:

11.5.4 Committing units
You must commit every non-SUB unit in the sea area to combat.

So: no bug. US convoys are included in this case.

Good to know. Thanks!

[paulderynck]

No I don't think that is right or else neutral US CPs could always go to sea and be cannon fodder for the active Allies. 9.9 Multiple States of War applies. "During port strikes and naval combats, a unit can’t fight against units from the other side unless it is at war with at least one of them (being at war with an enemy unit the naval unit is transporting is not enough). However, you resolve, as one combat, a combat that includes units that are not at war with each other, so long as each unit included is at war with at least 1 enemy unit in the combat. Exceptions to the restriction on neutral naval units fighting are US units escorting Allied convoys (see 13.3.2, entry options 11, 29 & 38) and all US units after unrestricted naval warfare is chosen (entry option 50)."

The exception apply to US escorts and has nothing to do with US CPs until USE Options 32 and/or 50 are chosen.

Also see USE Option 32. Why would it say those CPs may be attacked - and thus be eligible to take as CP losses - if the US could have done that from the beginning of the game?

Also this is in the FAQ Q11.5.-1.


It is a bug.

[davidachamberlain]

Paul, it is more than just the US. I recalled that I saw neutral Vichy CPs showing up for losses when Italian CPs were attacked by the Allies.

Dave

[Centuur]

Well, than this is a thing our group always played wrong on the board. As usual one thinks one knew how to play this game...