If you had to pick, computer or board....
Moderator: maddog986
-
ringoblood
- Posts: 438
- Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:05 am
- Location: USA
RE: If you had to pick, computer or board....
Table top, not board game, Twightlight 2000, Squad Leader, DnD, ect.
Beta Tester:
1. The Bloody First
2. Warplan
1. The Bloody First
2. Warplan
RE: If you had to pick, computer or board....
Yes, I agree with thisORIGINAL: rico21
I believe that available brain time a day sets the new deal.
For me it is at 2:30 per day.
It suits me well because I can finish a game of tactical wargame in this period of time.
Otherwise I would spend my nights, in my mind, playing the next moves![:D]
-
Curtis Lemay
- Posts: 14658
- Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:12 pm
- Location: Houston, TX
RE: If you had to pick, computer or board....
There's more than just setup time and opponents to favor the PC wargame:
Units aren't monolithic blocks that are either entirely pristine or totally eliminated. (Yes, some board games allowed a few step reductions, but still no comparison to what PC units can do).
Combat isn't resolved via a simplistic CRT. Rather, individual weapons within the unit can individually resolve their combats via a suite of almost unlimitedly complex algorithms, with resultant paradigm-shifts in realism.
My huge stash of board wargames are now only used as a reference source, for whenever I wish to convert their subjects to PC wargames.
Units aren't monolithic blocks that are either entirely pristine or totally eliminated. (Yes, some board games allowed a few step reductions, but still no comparison to what PC units can do).
Combat isn't resolved via a simplistic CRT. Rather, individual weapons within the unit can individually resolve their combats via a suite of almost unlimitedly complex algorithms, with resultant paradigm-shifts in realism.
My huge stash of board wargames are now only used as a reference source, for whenever I wish to convert their subjects to PC wargames.
-
MrsWargamer
- Posts: 1653
- Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:04 pm
RE: If you had to pick, computer or board....
Sometimes PC war games are so utterly awesome in all their incredibly detailed magnificence that they completely screw the pooch when it comes to the KISS principle.
Sometimes a simple CRT works just fine. Sometimes a simple counter is what's required.
It took me like 5 days to set up The Longest Day recently. I currently have it stored in my spare room. I'll get back to it in a bit.
I'd rather play it than my copy of War in the West. Somehow, all the stupendous detail of the program still manages to fall flat on its face with me.
I like how I can just research the conditions of the battlefield from D+1, use some good guesswork and just recreate what I consider the best possible reflection in game terms of how the situation was through the counters and just not roll the dice and proceed from there. PC programs are simply not that user-friendly. They are what they are in most cases.
Sometimes a simple CRT works just fine. Sometimes a simple counter is what's required.
It took me like 5 days to set up The Longest Day recently. I currently have it stored in my spare room. I'll get back to it in a bit.
I'd rather play it than my copy of War in the West. Somehow, all the stupendous detail of the program still manages to fall flat on its face with me.
I like how I can just research the conditions of the battlefield from D+1, use some good guesswork and just recreate what I consider the best possible reflection in game terms of how the situation was through the counters and just not roll the dice and proceed from there. PC programs are simply not that user-friendly. They are what they are in most cases.
Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.
-
700851McCall
- Posts: 172
- Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:07 am
- Location: Staffordshire, England.
RE: If you had to pick, computer or board....
ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
There's more than just setup time and opponents to favor the PC wargame:
Units aren't monolithic blocks that are either entirely pristine or totally eliminated. (Yes, some board games allowed a few step reductions, but still no comparison to what PC units can do).
Combat isn't resolved via a simplistic CRT. Rather, individual weapons within the unit can individually resolve their combats via a suite of almost unlimitedly complex algorithms, with resultant paradigm-shifts in realism.
My huge stash of board wargames are now only used as a reference source, for whenever I wish to convert their subjects to PC wargames.
I agree, although I also still have a huge stash of board wargames, I've not played them against a human opponent in years, mainly because my one opponent moved out of town. Last solo board wargame I played was SPI's 'Cassino' S&T game, that's several years ago.
The 'AI' may be artificial but he is not intelligent, and that is still a drawback, but you can almost always find someone on line who will play a game with you.
You don't get any fog of war with a boardgame and that is a huge blow to realism. So with a reasonably well programmed AI I think this balances out, at least to some extent, the lack of smarts.
I do like my computer games to look like boardgames which is one of the reasons I am such a fan of TOAW. Some of the highly rated computer wargames like War In The West and War in The East just look awful to me and that puts me off.
I have a copy of Fire In The East bought in about 1988, never played it because it is just too big and too time consuming. Even if you are unemployed or retired. But TOAW allows me to play the entire Russian Campaign at division level and 10km to the hex on a laptop sat next to me on the couch. And it looks like a proper board wargame. It's a dream come true, frankly.
-
MrsWargamer
- Posts: 1653
- Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:04 pm
RE: If you had to pick, computer or board....
While I am not saying I prefer PC, to board game, some PC games 'get it right' better than others.
I like SC3. It 'get's it right' better than World in Flames does. I like TOAW, it 'gets it right' better than many others do. TOAW is like Steel Panthers in that you get an incredible sum of everything in the process.
War in the East and War in the West for all its massive awesome detail is just European WW2. So TOAW totally beats it for 'completeness'.
And when you are competing against another product, you have to do it better than the other product, or that other product sticks you in second place or worse.
Because regardless of where I am sitting, or maybe standing, I am only able to play one game at a time.
Today is a wonderful sunny looking day and it is 8:30, and I might decide "I want to play a war game today". And I will have to decide on which game eventually. Yeah, I could play something on my desktop, and something on my laptop, and something on my dining table, and something on the table I have in the storage room ALL at the same time I suppose.
But that would be totally crazy
I don't have TOAW IV yet, and might want it. I am unsure if I need it. I have a perfectly fine TOAW III. And TOAW III might be similar to accepting I have Advanced Third Reich with the rules manuals from the Pacific expansion, and just not bother getting the Global War iteration of the product.
We don't always truly need "the next thing".
Steel Tigers might turn out to be awesome. But Steel Panthers already is awesome. The Mega Campaigns have not yet been equaled. And if you desperately need modern, SPMBT is quite suitable. The only real challenge with Steel Panthers is machine and OS requirements. Sort of like needing a warehouse sized space for setting up all of the Europa maps. Which is about as difficult to arrange, as it is for a group of persons wishing to build a model railroad layout for a local model railroading club. My father started one more than 40 years ago. Likely invented the exclusively model railroad annual invent idea in the process. He's passed away now though, but the annual event still happens, and the club still spends the cash to maintain the layout option.
People will make something happen if they want it enough.
That's why the notion of "I don't have any human opponents" is not a reason so much as it is a reflection of priorities.
If I won the lottery tomorrow, and up a multimillionaire, You can say I'd have that room, and I'd hunt down the human opponents, and I'd make it happen
I don't consider the AI option sufficient. That's me. It's not like I never play the AI in some games. I don't mind playing the AI in Civilization or Heroes of Might and Magic. But in a war game, I want to experience what I experience while playing a board game solo. The AI just gets in the way there.
When I play SC3 vs the AI, I'm just being lazy at that moment. I'd prefer to play it hotseat as if the 'other person' wasn't actually me. VS another human would be better though. But I don't mind playing Advanced Third Reich me vs me. I just don't get to indulge the wild what ifs.
I like SC3. It 'get's it right' better than World in Flames does. I like TOAW, it 'gets it right' better than many others do. TOAW is like Steel Panthers in that you get an incredible sum of everything in the process.
War in the East and War in the West for all its massive awesome detail is just European WW2. So TOAW totally beats it for 'completeness'.
And when you are competing against another product, you have to do it better than the other product, or that other product sticks you in second place or worse.
Because regardless of where I am sitting, or maybe standing, I am only able to play one game at a time.
Today is a wonderful sunny looking day and it is 8:30, and I might decide "I want to play a war game today". And I will have to decide on which game eventually. Yeah, I could play something on my desktop, and something on my laptop, and something on my dining table, and something on the table I have in the storage room ALL at the same time I suppose.
But that would be totally crazy
I don't have TOAW IV yet, and might want it. I am unsure if I need it. I have a perfectly fine TOAW III. And TOAW III might be similar to accepting I have Advanced Third Reich with the rules manuals from the Pacific expansion, and just not bother getting the Global War iteration of the product.
We don't always truly need "the next thing".
Steel Tigers might turn out to be awesome. But Steel Panthers already is awesome. The Mega Campaigns have not yet been equaled. And if you desperately need modern, SPMBT is quite suitable. The only real challenge with Steel Panthers is machine and OS requirements. Sort of like needing a warehouse sized space for setting up all of the Europa maps. Which is about as difficult to arrange, as it is for a group of persons wishing to build a model railroad layout for a local model railroading club. My father started one more than 40 years ago. Likely invented the exclusively model railroad annual invent idea in the process. He's passed away now though, but the annual event still happens, and the club still spends the cash to maintain the layout option.
People will make something happen if they want it enough.
That's why the notion of "I don't have any human opponents" is not a reason so much as it is a reflection of priorities.
If I won the lottery tomorrow, and up a multimillionaire, You can say I'd have that room, and I'd hunt down the human opponents, and I'd make it happen
I don't consider the AI option sufficient. That's me. It's not like I never play the AI in some games. I don't mind playing the AI in Civilization or Heroes of Might and Magic. But in a war game, I want to experience what I experience while playing a board game solo. The AI just gets in the way there.
When I play SC3 vs the AI, I'm just being lazy at that moment. I'd prefer to play it hotseat as if the 'other person' wasn't actually me. VS another human would be better though. But I don't mind playing Advanced Third Reich me vs me. I just don't get to indulge the wild what ifs.
Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.
-
700851McCall
- Posts: 172
- Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:07 am
- Location: Staffordshire, England.
RE: If you had to pick, computer or board....
It's interesting that you are happy to play both sides in a solitaire game. I always use the AI. But then I rarely played the board wargames solitaire, I usually had a real opponent. (Played a lot of games of Advanced Third Reich btw, that was always one of my favourites).
So I guess it is what we are used to.
You should get TOAW4, it is a significant upgrade on III.
So I guess it is what we are used to.
You should get TOAW4, it is a significant upgrade on III.
-
MrsWargamer
- Posts: 1653
- Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:04 pm
RE: If you had to pick, computer or board....
I had a human opponent for a long swath of lifespan, and then life happened. Literally. He was never quite the same after becoming a parent.
Not that I can talk. I multiplied once I so wanted him to become a wargamer (I understand home-grown differently eh), but he insisted on being a common variety gamer, and then a writer. Oh well, the writer part is nice (I'm a writer).
I live in small town Canada though, and local wargamers are very rare.
Sigh. I've tried eeeeeeverything to find a regular wargaming opponent. Even sex. Sort of. Well, I've pondered marrying one eh.
Not that I can talk. I multiplied once
I so wanted him to become a wargamer (I understand home-grown differently eh), but he insisted on being a common variety gamer, and then a writer. Oh well, the writer part is nice (I'm a writer).I live in small town Canada though, and local wargamers are very rare.
Sigh. I've tried eeeeeeverything to find a regular wargaming opponent. Even sex. Sort of. Well, I've pondered marrying one eh.
Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.
RE: If you had to pick, computer or board....
Most of my board games stayed in their issue of Strategy & Tactics, or their Avalon Hill box without being played. I did like to look at them though. I only played a few and that was only for a three year period during high school. At least I play computer games a bit more, and with an AI whenever I want. I'm also glad for computer games because I'd know a great deal less regarding computing if it wasn't for wargames. Not that I know a good deal, but I was recently able to update my business website and get my back office computer up and running after a failure so that's a good thing.
Re: RE: If you had to pick, computer or board....
I know this guy personally and what he doesn't mention is the games he lost as the Axis.AbwehrX wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:16 pm Nothing compares to an 8 player WiF Final Ed boardgame. Especially when you win as the Axis 3 times. [:D]
Like the time when playing as the Germans he couldn't take Paris.
I know because I was a player in those games.
-
Rebel Yell
- Posts: 528
- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2003 7:00 pm
- Location: The Woodlands, TX USA
Re: If you had to pick, computer or board....
You necroed a 4.5 year old thread for that?
Re: If you had to pick, computer or board....
I don't know what necroed means but I had only found his post that day.
We are old friends. Since high school and I'm 63 years old. He knows I'm messing with him. We still play wargames against each other.
I told him the day I posted that.
The post is accurate. He has a history of conveniently forgetting all his losses.
I meant no offense. Sorry it came across that way.
I see now that it was a mistake to post it. I feel like it was a bad idea all the way around. I won't be doing that again.
I apologize.
We are old friends. Since high school and I'm 63 years old. He knows I'm messing with him. We still play wargames against each other.
I told him the day I posted that.
The post is accurate. He has a history of conveniently forgetting all his losses.
I meant no offense. Sorry it came across that way.
I see now that it was a mistake to post it. I feel like it was a bad idea all the way around. I won't be doing that again.
I apologize.
Re: If you had to pick, computer or board....
Project the screen onto a massive screen on the wall.
Then play a computer wargame H2H with both players in the same room.
We would need to invent special goggles. The goggles would allow me to see my troops but stop me from seeing enemy troops that are hidden due to fog of war.
.
.
Then play a computer wargame H2H with both players in the same room.
We would need to invent special goggles. The goggles would allow me to see my troops but stop me from seeing enemy troops that are hidden due to fog of war.
.
.
Re: If you had to pick, computer or board....
Dover Patrol
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=dover+ ... &ia=images
I think my blue minelayer is missing.
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=dover+ ... &ia=images
I think my blue minelayer is missing.
Re: If you had to pick, computer or board....
Necro or Necroed just means resurrecting's a thread that has not been posted in pretty long time, in this case a 4.5 year thread. Generally its frowned upon in the General area because a lot of spam bot's will post in dead threads. In other game specific threads its not so much frowned upon in that a question may resurface again after several years, or when someone new to a specific game discovers the thread and posts in area that have not been posted in a few years.
But in the General Discussion area its usually bad form or frowned upon due to those spam bot hackers.
Beta Tester for: War in the East 1 & 2, WarPlan & WarPlan Pacific, Valor & Victory, Flashpoint Campaigns: Sudden Storm, Computer War In Europe 2
SPWW2 & SPMBT scenario creator
Tester for WDS games
Re: If you had to pick, computer or board....
I personally have no problems with someone adding to an old thread if the post is pertinent.
- Attachments
-
- a lighthouse with a wave crashing against it.jpg (41.72 KiB) Viewed 952 times
Seek peace but keep your gun handy.
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!
“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
; Julia Child
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!
“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
; Julia ChildRe: If you had to pick, computer or board....
Belated Greetings MrsWargamer,
Having owned & played numerous (200+) board war games (ancients, crusades, french & indian war, napoleonic, civil war, ww 1, ww 2, ww 3, korea, vietnam and modern mid-east/far-east) tactical, operational grand tactical and strategic scales, I prefer computer wargames (hpssims, jts software, wds warganes, combat mission series, matrixgames and star wars titles.
At age 70, I find computer wargames easier to play due to easier set up/table space and old eyes. However, I use Cyberboad (free) to still play board wargames along with Tabletop Simulator (steam version) solo or hot seat.
There is play by mail for Cyberboard but I am a solo gamer.
https://cyberboard.brainiac.com/descript.html
https://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Cyberboard
http://limeyyankgames.co.uk/cyberboard complete download list of wargames playable with cyberboard.
(MrsWargamer go to page 22 to get The Longest Day by Avalon Hill)
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2861 ... Simulator/ (check community hub for wargames available.
I love Cyberboard to play the La Bataille and Simtac Napoleonic game series, Squad Leader and Up Front games.
Tabletop Simulator has numerous wargames, especially my favorite East Front titles but you have to search for them by name.
Having owned & played numerous (200+) board war games (ancients, crusades, french & indian war, napoleonic, civil war, ww 1, ww 2, ww 3, korea, vietnam and modern mid-east/far-east) tactical, operational grand tactical and strategic scales, I prefer computer wargames (hpssims, jts software, wds warganes, combat mission series, matrixgames and star wars titles.
At age 70, I find computer wargames easier to play due to easier set up/table space and old eyes. However, I use Cyberboad (free) to still play board wargames along with Tabletop Simulator (steam version) solo or hot seat.
There is play by mail for Cyberboard but I am a solo gamer.
https://cyberboard.brainiac.com/descript.html
https://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Cyberboard
http://limeyyankgames.co.uk/cyberboard complete download list of wargames playable with cyberboard.
(MrsWargamer go to page 22 to get The Longest Day by Avalon Hill)
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2861 ... Simulator/ (check community hub for wargames available.
I love Cyberboard to play the La Bataille and Simtac Napoleonic game series, Squad Leader and Up Front games.
Tabletop Simulator has numerous wargames, especially my favorite East Front titles but you have to search for them by name.
Re: If you had to pick, computer or board....
She can't reply as she was banned back in August.
Building a new PC.
Re: If you had to pick, computer or board....
Correction she asked to be permanently banned.
Beta Tester for: War in the East 1 & 2, WarPlan & WarPlan Pacific, Valor & Victory, Flashpoint Campaigns: Sudden Storm, Computer War In Europe 2
SPWW2 & SPMBT scenario creator
Tester for WDS games
Re: If you had to pick, computer or board....
Is that some form of aversion therapy?
Anyway, I mentioned Dover Patrol earlier but I think I’ll go Napoleonic this Christmas as I’ve come across Campaign in the garage. About 50 years old and never really played. Something odd about cavalry and infantry movement I think.
Anyway, I mentioned Dover Patrol earlier but I think I’ll go Napoleonic this Christmas as I’ve come across Campaign in the garage. About 50 years old and never really played. Something odd about cavalry and infantry movement I think.