Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis)

[Taxman66]

It still appears somewhat up for grabs.

How close is Germany to Moscow and Stalingrad? If Sugar can take (and hold) them long enough to send the airforce and a paratrooper back to France it will be all over.

If Sugar can't I would bet the Wallies will show up in France or NA during 1943.

[PJL1973]

I suspect Sugar is still winning this. Certainly Cairo is taken. Keeping Moscow & Stalingrad is irrelevant unless German NM is at least decreasing which is a sign that the the Allies are winning the attrition war. Otherwise their fall is inevitable, even if the Allies invade France.

[Harun]

I think Sugar's main strategy past NA is to grind the Soviets down by attrition: wipe out more MPPs than you lose yourself, and slowly, inexorably take the main cities.

Then its a simple paradrop into London after a turn or two of operating units.

I made that sound so easy. Its probably pretty hard.

Korut seems to have tried to delay in NA, while building up Russian forces (and tech, more importantly, so the air war attrition is painful.) Greece might be a nice side show, but I think he should have waited to do that. Its also unfortunate he took so many turns to get Iraq.

Its an exciting game.

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: Harun

I think Sugar's main strategy past NA is to grind the Soviets down by attrition: wipe out more MPPs than you lose yourself, and slowly, inexorably take the main cities.

Then its a simple paradrop into London after a turn or two of operating units.

I made that sound so easy. Its probably pretty hard.

Korut seems to have tried to delay in NA, while building up Russian forces (and tech, more importantly, so the air war attrition is painful.) Greece might be a nice side show, but I think he should have waited to do that. Its also unfortunate he took so many turns to get Iraq.

Its an exciting game.

The main mistake the allies usually make with the USSR is that they can't resist buying lots of corps and armies (and sometimes garrison) and plop them in every city and behind all the river hex they can spare to delay the Germans as much as possible. It's hard to resist the lure of those cheap units. After all you get a discount on them, shouldn't they be the best bang for your buck? They can be. This strategy will work very well vs an axis player that doesn't use overstrenght and/or tries to rush things to grab as much lands as possible as fast as possible. An Axis expert will use the opportunity to take it slow and build up experience and overstrenghting their units methodically inching towards USSR victory cities. The USSR will spend mpp after mpp resurrecting cheap inf killed in supply that can't dent the germans and won't have enough mpp to build up their big unit pool for the climatic battle in the east.

In this game (and the one vs YohanTM) I took a page of the Sugary playbook and withdrew inland and limited combat between the Soviet and Germans in 1941. The thinking is that the soviet will save mpp and the german will not have accrued an insurmountable lead in experience that will allow the Soviet to trade units close to parity when they counterattack.

[KorutZelva]

April 42 (typo fixed!)

Air war flares up in Iraq. Germans take Thessaloniki. Three german tanks poised to attack Leningrad perimeter. With Rostov threatened Stalin recall the Siberian troops. Sub raiding on the Iraq and USSR line.

Unit count after the arrival of the Siberian troops

[Taxman66]

April 42, I presume.

What is the Spain/Vichy North Africa situation? Partucularly now that the RM is gone.

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

April 42, I presume.

What is the Spain/Vichy North Africa situation? Partucularly now that the RM is gone.

Good eye! I've fixed it.

Spain at 68% Axis IIRC.

All Vichy possessions are neutral.

[Dorky8]

Does winning for Axis include taking London. That seems like it’s to much.

[crispy131313]

ORIGINAL: Dorky8

Does winning for Axis include taking London. That seems like it’s to much.

That's only if you want to have the game declare a winner and end the match prematurely.

[Taxman66]

Germany wins if they get all the following: Cairo, London, Lenningrad, Moscow and Stalingrad.

[Dorky8]

Otherwise Allies win? No draw minor victory?

[KorutZelva]

A little manual copy and paste!

For an Axis Decisive Victory, the Axis need to
capture Paris, Warsaw, Cairo, London, Moscow,
Leningrad and Stalingrad, while also retaining
Berlin and Rome.

At 8th May 1947, then the following conditions will apply:

An Axis Major Victory will be won if the Axis
hold Berlin, Rome, Warsaw, Paris, London and
Moscow.
An Axis Minor Victory will be won if the Axis
hold Berlin, Rome, Warsaw, Paris and either
London or Moscow.
The result will be an Allied Minor
Victory if Paris, London, Moscow and Washington
D.C. are all still in Allied hands.

[Ktonos]

ORIGINAL: Dorky8

Does winning for Axis include taking London. That seems like it’s to much.

Believe me, since you only have to make touchdown to London and not hold it to win, that is the easy part. Hard part is to take and consolidate all three Soviet objectives. Also if Axis lost Africa and Gibraltar is still in UK hands, Cairo is almost impossible.

I think Sugar is the favorite but KZ has grabbed some advantages that might contest this game. Namely he retains Sea superiority, UK land unit count is healthy and Soviet land unit count keeps up within acceptable range with the Wehrmacht. But in my opinion whoever wins in Egypt dictates much of the game's fate. If Spain joins Axis income will skyrocket & I can't see her not doing so.

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: Ktonos

ORIGINAL: Dorky8

Does winning for Axis include taking London. That seems like it’s to much.

Believe me, since you only have to make touchdown to London and not hold it to win, that is the easy part. Hard part is to take and consolidate all three Soviet objectives. Also if Axis lost Africa and Gibraltar is still in UK hands, Cairo is almost impossible.

I think Sugar is the favorite but KZ has grabbed some advantages that might contest this game. Namely he retains Sea superiority, UK land unit count is healthy and Soviet land unit count keeps up within acceptable range with the Wehrmacht. But in my opinion whoever wins in Egypt dictates much of the game's fate. If Spain joins Axis income will skyrocket & I can't see her not doing so.

Guys, you're killing me. I'm totally the modern day Buster Douglas!

[Taxman66]

ORIGINAL: Ktonos

ORIGINAL: Dorky8

Does winning for Axis include taking London. That seems like it’s to much.

Believe me, since you only have to make touchdown to London and not hold it to win, that is the easy part. Hard part is to take and consolidate all three Soviet objectives. Also if Axis lost Africa and Gibraltar is still in UK hands, Cairo is almost impossible.

I think Sugar is the favorite but KZ has grabbed some advantages that might contest this game. Namely he retains Sea superiority, UK land unit count is healthy and Soviet land unit count keeps up within acceptable range with the Wehrmacht. But in my opinion whoever wins in Egypt dictates much of the game's fate. If Spain joins Axis income will skyrocket & I can't see her not doing so.

Well with the US in the war Spain won't be joining diplomatically and with the RM gone, not to mention the date, I think getting it via Algiers/Casablanca is pretty unlikely too. Also with the RM gone, Italy is very vulnerable.

[KorutZelva]

Sponsoring the iraq rebel was the best money the Axis ever spent, the delayed surrender wrecked my supply situation which the Axis made good use of to win the air war around Baghdad. 2 fighters down, retreat!!!

Pictures of various frontlines



Letting attrition do its thing.



Retreating south...



First breach is made in the north.

[PvtBenjamin]

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

It's only a 25% chance if he does support them.
Still 8 turns seems excessive (unless it is only checking on Allied turns?)

Understood. I was calculating Sugars chance of holding.


I'd have to say this is close to even, well played on both sides. Maybe more like the Bayonne Bleeder than Buster but we'll see.

[KorutZelva]

May 42

In Leningrad, the army south of the city is destroyed (by air so the fortification remains). No unit can occupy the hex so another army is moved back to the fort. A garrison suicides itself to allow replacement with a sturdier corp.

In the drive towards Moskov, the germans are just short of Rzhev and Kaluga. The former recently evacuated, the latter undefended (although the german suspiciously saw a unit go through the city from north to south)...

The drive toward Stalingrad remains at Taganrov with no attack made to the city defenders. Maybe to let supply to catch up, maybe to wait for the vaunted Tiger tanks to roll off the production line... (or both?) To the west, Kiev finally falls after a long siege.

Germany tosses Italy a bone and let it conquer Syria. The Iraqi gravy trains stops with Baghdad being conquered. Axis successes in the middle east alarm the saudis (diplohit) so another smaller gravy train starts (but we'll see for how long for that one...)

[Taxman66]

You couldn't disband the Garrison?

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

You couldn't disband the Garrison?

You can't if its adjacent to the enemy unfortunately...