One more man's opinion

[Ktonos]

After 2 dozen of pbems I'm gonna post my own opinion as well.

As I said before its an absolute blast of a game. I've played almost everything grand strategic and operational about WW2 and this tops the list side by side with a totally different beast, GGWitE. And as far as grand strategy WW2 goes it certainly is up there number one. When opponents are equal the game is so tense that you can go there, feeling the stress of the war's leaders.

So, to my remarks:

1) Spain issue: I do not see a problem with Spain being easy to join the Axis. Yes, in most of my Pbems and most importantly whenever the Axis really wanted it, Spain joined. I don't see a problem there though. Spain during the war was considered a non-belligerent axis member. Franco wanted to join the Axis, but Germany didn't want another "Italy" on her side. That is, an ally that could cause more trouble than help. Franco even was panicked after the German defeat, as he feared he was going to be indicted in the Nurmberg trials for war crimes, as he considered himself part of the defeated side.

In my opinion it isn't the problem that Spain joins so easy. The problem is that Spain is ahistorically important and too good to refuse. I haven't counted the MPPs from Spain but it seems that when they go Axis they contribute something like 20% of the income. Their army roster is huge and healthy. Spain should be nerfed rather than be made more difficult to join Axis. Maybe have all their resources in "Civil War" effect, lower their unit count, and switch armies and corps to Divisions (like the Blue Division). Maybe with some experience due to the civil war. Also Whoever grabs Spain (even if it joins the Allies) should face serious insurgencies and rebels.

2) National decisions: They are a wonderful mechanic, but in my opinion they have much more potential. Most of them should be dilemas, instead most of them are almost one way with rare exceptions. For example Invasion of Norway should bring some hits to the Kriegsmarine, and if unlucky some ships sunk. Plan Z could be for more ships, maybe add to Graf Zeppelin a BB Hindenburg and some cruisers, but for much much more MPP cost.

3) Minor allies and tech I would love to see minor ally units being hard capped on their tech improvements. I mean how come production tech isn't affecting them but infantry weapons does? It feels a bit unrealistic to buy a German corp rather a Romanian because the former is cheaper. Or that I can have all Spanish armies with 2/2/1 upgrades. Maybe tone down minor allies costs and place a hard cap on their tech improvements. Eg Canadians and Finns could be with Inf weapons 2, but only Canadians with mobility. Hungarians and Turks could have Inf I, Spanish, Romanians, Greeks and Bulgarians no tech at all.

[KorutZelva]

Seconded in regards to point number 2.

As a matter of fact, a smart and handsome man has already weighted on the matter. [:D]

[LordOfPants]

Spain was an economic basket case, I agree that that a realistic balance to them would be making them contribute less to the Axis. Since they relied on coastal shipping, giving them 'mining zones' like US and CA have, where UK/US ships could cause economic problems might be another idea. Also, I'm really not sure why they made it so that the Axis can sail past Gibraltar but the Allies can't, making Gibraltar work the same for both sides would make taking it a bit less effective.

I also think minor ally armies are weird in this game. Typically they provide relatively weak but cheap armies to help fill out your frontage, in this game they're more expensive than the main country but equally effective, and rather large. In my games it's not uncommon for the southern front in Russia to be three army groups fielded by Spain, Rumania, and Hungary, each with tanks corps packed with the latest armor designs plus multiple armies and corps that are just as good as German infantry. I think it would make more sense if they were cheaper but limited in upgrades, maybe with a 'technical assistance to minor allies' project that would allow a little more upgrading.

[Ktonos]

Lord totally agree with both points and yes Spanish mining sea zones is an excellent idea.

KZ, wow, that handsome man did a lot of work. Very good idea for the Norway ND. Regarding NDs a nice thing would be to have opponents react with a "reactive" decision. Eg, "does the UK contest the transfer of DAK? (= random hits to every UK ship in the med and to each DAK unit), or does UK contest Norway? etc. Though its a bit late in development to make smthing like that and refine & balance it.

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: Ktonos

Lord totally agree with both points and yes Spanish mining sea zones is an excellent idea.

KZ, wow, that handsome man did a lot of work. Very good idea for the Norway ND. Regarding NDs a nice thing would be to have opponents react with a "reactive" decision. Eg, "does the UK contest the transfer of DAK? (= random hits to every UK ship in the med and to each DAK unit), or does UK contest Norway? etc. Though its a bit late in development to make smthing like that and refine & balance it.

SC tradition means they are rather conservative in terms of decision offered. The template is: 'Here's a thing that happened, do you want to do it?'. And other than Spain and Lithuania ones we don't get a lot of 'Here's a thing that could have happened but didn't, do you want to do it?'. And like you said, most decisions have clear winners.

[GiveWarAchance]

I don't know much about Spain except that it is really good for taking over Gibraltar. The deadly weakness of Spain is its huge coast with many ports that the USA can happily land in anytime it pleases. I don't think nerfing Spain is good cause it will make it even more vulnerable to allied landings. But I do think having a separate tech & unit list for Spain would be nice if they don't already cause I think Spanish units were much weaker than the reliable, strong German units, but they should be able to build a good number of crappy/unreliable troops & thin-skinned riveted tanks and some flimsy WW1 era planes that can barely fly if they feel the urge.

[Elessar2]

In the earlier editions of the game teching up your minors cost buku bucks, double costs IIRC. In the game I just finished doing so seemed relatively cheap (almost didn't bother assuming it was like the older versions of SC, only to find out that I was wrong), and Rumania was especially helpful. Note the Russians took advantage of their weakness (+ Hungary's) during the Stalingrad counteroffensive.