An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Moderator: Shannon V. OKeets
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 27. Jan/Feb 1944. Southern China. French Indo-China.
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Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 27. Jan/Feb 1944. Strategic Summary.
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Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
I am impressed that the Allies are continuing to play this game!
I thought I knew how to play this game....
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
ORIGINAL: Courtenay
I am impressed that the Allies are continuing to play this game!
If one looks at the USSR, things don't look that easy for the Axis at all. How many Axis units are there between the Soviet army and Moscow? And in the Middle East, the push for Ankara is on for the Allies. Baku is still Soviet controlled (and it's a very difficult hex to take out).
Japan isn't looking good too. That country might get conquered halfway of 1944, if the Allies play it good enough...
Peter
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Mid-Game Assessment (Turn 27. Jan/Feb 1944).
I call this a mid-game assessment because my feel is that this game has only reached its half-way point at best. If you’ve been following this AAR from the beginning then you know that my objective was to use MWiF to create a simulation of WW-2. Not in the sense of how a video on the subject might play out but in the sense of an interactive gaming experience true to that subject at the strategic level. And while you may believe that this game has deviated from that objective I feel that it may not have. My intention was never to recreate the sequence and timeline of the major strategic events of WW2, I have the World at War DVD set for that, but to create an interactive gaming experience that I feel could have been how WW-2 “played out”.
Before I get into why I feel that this game is playing at in an historical realistic way, I’d like to cover a few points on this game, as a game, so far. First, this is the most exciting game of MWiF that I’ve ever played, bar none. I do realize that the allies have no chance of achieving their historical objective of total defeat of all three axis powers by the end of Jul/Aug 1945, turn 36. While Japan may be defeated and possibly Italy, though I’m not too sure on that one, my sense is that Germany will still be very strong and control most, if not all, of France, northern Italy, Poland and the Balkans. So, if I were playing a game that ended on August 31, 1945, or in my alternate reality of WW-2 if I knew that a meteorite was going to strike and end the Earth at midnight on August 31, 1945, then I might consider ending this game as the allies. I say might, because even as the allies I’m having fun. The Pacific campaign is a blast and the Soviets, who I thought were out, holds at Perm and has begun to drive the axis back towards Moscow. This game isn’t a case of one side being on the offensive, and having all the fun, while the other is constantly defending. All powers are conducting major offensive actions, as well as defending against the blows from their opponent.
Before I transition to the simulation aspect, or accuracy, of my game I’d like to cover the naval part of the game. I’m loving it! I thought that playing with Cruisers in Flames would unfairly tilt the balance towards the allies, and maybe it has, but I’m really enjoy playing with them and the additional realism it adds. And, significantly, I don’t feel that CIF’s has tilted the naval towards the allies any more than playing without them. I know some don’t even build the Essex class carriers but instead invest heavily in land base air, and I can certainly see the attraction to that from a gaming perspective, but there’s a richness to playing out the Pacific with massive carrier air and naval gun battles that I would miss if I played that way.
Now turning to the historical simulation part, I must admit I have two regrets so far in that respect. The first was not requiring Germany to invade, conquer and garrison Norway. The second was allowing Germany to align Yugoslavia. By the way, I have “no regret” allowing Germany to align Turkey. I feel that this was just payment for the amazing success that the axis have had in Southern Russia. But, getting back to my two regrets. I feel this has tilted the simulation too much in the axis favor. I did require the Winter War between the USSR and Finland. I thoroughly enjoyed playing it out and felt that it added significantly to the simulation realism. But, not requiring Germany to go after Norway relived them of a significant distraction and drain of resources that may have prevented the route we saw of the Soviets in 1941 and 1942. And while I’m at it let me add a third regret. There was one impulse in early 1941, or maybe it was late 1940, where the Soviets had the garrison ratio to break the pact but I didn’t allow them to do so. I should have, and will allow them to do so in the future, in order to force the Germans to garrison their border with the Soviets sufficiently to maintain the pact or face the consequences. Now with respect to my second regret, allowing Germany to align Yugoslavia, this gave Germany addition troops including another HQ-I and alleviated from them the requirement to garrison Yugoslavia against partisans, which were a major headache for the axis during the war
But, even with my two, actually three, regrets I still feel that the game is playing out in an historical believable way. As a simulator I was sure that the Soviet Union was toast when the Wehrmacht was attacking the city of Perm with a good chance of taking it. I could hear Hitler boasting that soon the city would be German and the Soviet Union would be no more. I could also envision Stalin, who had fled Moscow at the last moment, agonizing over whether or not to flee Perm but at the last minute ordering his government to stay and his military and all occupants of the city to defend Perm to the last man, woman and child. I felt the overconfidence of the Germans at the gates of Perm. Thinking that the war in the East would soon be over only to not only be held out of the city but see their exposed supply lines repeatedly cut and army after army surrounded and destroyed. Also, I see the Western Allies, specifically the USA and Great Britain doing all they can, and any way they can, to get supplies and resources to the Soviets in order to keep the Soviet Union in the fight against Germany and Italy.
I could continue on for several more paragraphs on how I feel that the other theaters are playing out historically realistically too, but honestly I want to get back to my game. I don’t know how long this war will continue or if it will result in the defeat of all three axis powers. Or, if it will reach a point in 1946 or later where the surviving (i.e., unconquered) major powers have had enough or war and seek an armistice? I don’t know but I look forward to hours of fun finding out.
Please feel free to tell me what you think, either about the game or the attempt at an historical simulation.
I call this a mid-game assessment because my feel is that this game has only reached its half-way point at best. If you’ve been following this AAR from the beginning then you know that my objective was to use MWiF to create a simulation of WW-2. Not in the sense of how a video on the subject might play out but in the sense of an interactive gaming experience true to that subject at the strategic level. And while you may believe that this game has deviated from that objective I feel that it may not have. My intention was never to recreate the sequence and timeline of the major strategic events of WW2, I have the World at War DVD set for that, but to create an interactive gaming experience that I feel could have been how WW-2 “played out”.
Before I get into why I feel that this game is playing at in an historical realistic way, I’d like to cover a few points on this game, as a game, so far. First, this is the most exciting game of MWiF that I’ve ever played, bar none. I do realize that the allies have no chance of achieving their historical objective of total defeat of all three axis powers by the end of Jul/Aug 1945, turn 36. While Japan may be defeated and possibly Italy, though I’m not too sure on that one, my sense is that Germany will still be very strong and control most, if not all, of France, northern Italy, Poland and the Balkans. So, if I were playing a game that ended on August 31, 1945, or in my alternate reality of WW-2 if I knew that a meteorite was going to strike and end the Earth at midnight on August 31, 1945, then I might consider ending this game as the allies. I say might, because even as the allies I’m having fun. The Pacific campaign is a blast and the Soviets, who I thought were out, holds at Perm and has begun to drive the axis back towards Moscow. This game isn’t a case of one side being on the offensive, and having all the fun, while the other is constantly defending. All powers are conducting major offensive actions, as well as defending against the blows from their opponent.
Before I transition to the simulation aspect, or accuracy, of my game I’d like to cover the naval part of the game. I’m loving it! I thought that playing with Cruisers in Flames would unfairly tilt the balance towards the allies, and maybe it has, but I’m really enjoy playing with them and the additional realism it adds. And, significantly, I don’t feel that CIF’s has tilted the naval towards the allies any more than playing without them. I know some don’t even build the Essex class carriers but instead invest heavily in land base air, and I can certainly see the attraction to that from a gaming perspective, but there’s a richness to playing out the Pacific with massive carrier air and naval gun battles that I would miss if I played that way.
Now turning to the historical simulation part, I must admit I have two regrets so far in that respect. The first was not requiring Germany to invade, conquer and garrison Norway. The second was allowing Germany to align Yugoslavia. By the way, I have “no regret” allowing Germany to align Turkey. I feel that this was just payment for the amazing success that the axis have had in Southern Russia. But, getting back to my two regrets. I feel this has tilted the simulation too much in the axis favor. I did require the Winter War between the USSR and Finland. I thoroughly enjoyed playing it out and felt that it added significantly to the simulation realism. But, not requiring Germany to go after Norway relived them of a significant distraction and drain of resources that may have prevented the route we saw of the Soviets in 1941 and 1942. And while I’m at it let me add a third regret. There was one impulse in early 1941, or maybe it was late 1940, where the Soviets had the garrison ratio to break the pact but I didn’t allow them to do so. I should have, and will allow them to do so in the future, in order to force the Germans to garrison their border with the Soviets sufficiently to maintain the pact or face the consequences. Now with respect to my second regret, allowing Germany to align Yugoslavia, this gave Germany addition troops including another HQ-I and alleviated from them the requirement to garrison Yugoslavia against partisans, which were a major headache for the axis during the war
But, even with my two, actually three, regrets I still feel that the game is playing out in an historical believable way. As a simulator I was sure that the Soviet Union was toast when the Wehrmacht was attacking the city of Perm with a good chance of taking it. I could hear Hitler boasting that soon the city would be German and the Soviet Union would be no more. I could also envision Stalin, who had fled Moscow at the last moment, agonizing over whether or not to flee Perm but at the last minute ordering his government to stay and his military and all occupants of the city to defend Perm to the last man, woman and child. I felt the overconfidence of the Germans at the gates of Perm. Thinking that the war in the East would soon be over only to not only be held out of the city but see their exposed supply lines repeatedly cut and army after army surrounded and destroyed. Also, I see the Western Allies, specifically the USA and Great Britain doing all they can, and any way they can, to get supplies and resources to the Soviets in order to keep the Soviet Union in the fight against Germany and Italy.
I could continue on for several more paragraphs on how I feel that the other theaters are playing out historically realistically too, but honestly I want to get back to my game. I don’t know how long this war will continue or if it will result in the defeat of all three axis powers. Or, if it will reach a point in 1946 or later where the surviving (i.e., unconquered) major powers have had enough or war and seek an armistice? I don’t know but I look forward to hours of fun finding out.
Please feel free to tell me what you think, either about the game or the attempt at an historical simulation.
Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Personally, I think the Allies should move out of China and put those forces to good use by invading Japan instead. You don't need to kill of the Japanese troops in China. You need to end the war. Invade Japan...
Peter
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
The Western allied strategy in China isn't as much about liberating China as it is about capturing resources and a land path of getting those resources to the hungry Soviet factories.ORIGINAL: Centuur
Personally, I think the Allies should move out of China and put those forces to good use by invading Japan instead. You don't need to kill of the Japanese troops in China. You need to end the war. Invade Japan...
But you're also right that conquering Japan would accomplish that too and more. Believe me, that hasn't been lost on allied planners either.
Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 27. Jan/Feb 1944. Summary.
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- 99Summary.jpg (1.27 MiB) Viewed 247 times
Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 27. Jan/Feb 1944. Axis #1. IJN Actions Summary.
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- 01AXIJN..Summary.jpg (377.13 KiB) Viewed 247 times
Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 27. Jan/Feb 1944. Axis #1. The Eastern Front. Baku.
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- 01AXUSSRBaku.jpg (1.11 MiB) Viewed 247 times
Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 27. Jan/Feb 1944. Allied #3. communist Chinese.
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- 03ALcomm..stchina.jpg (1.29 MiB) Viewed 247 times
Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 27. Jan/Feb 1944. Allied #3. USN. China Sea.
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- 03ALUSNChinaSea.jpg (412.71 KiB) Viewed 247 times
Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 27. Jan/Feb 1944. Allied #3. USN, Nationalist Chinese. Ground Strikes.
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- 03ALChin..Strikes.jpg (839.33 KiB) Viewed 247 times
Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 27. Jan/Feb 1944. Allied #3. USA. Amphibious Landing. Formosa.
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- 03ALUSFormosa.jpg (1.48 MiB) Viewed 247 times
Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 27. Jan/Feb 1944. Allied #3. USA. CW. Operation GII.
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- 03ALOperationGII.jpg (2.93 MiB) Viewed 247 times
Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 27. Jan/Feb 1944. Allied #3. USA. CW. Ground Strikes. Turkey.
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- 03ALTUR..Strikes.jpg (510.2 KiB) Viewed 247 times
Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 27. Jan/Feb 1944. Allied #3. USA. CW. Amphibious Land. Panderma, Turkey.
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- 03ALPanderma.jpg (640.58 KiB) Viewed 247 times
Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 27. Jan/Feb 1944. Allied #3. USA. CW. Amphibious Land. Turkey.
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- 03ALTUR2.jpg (865.08 KiB) Viewed 247 times
Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 27. Jan/Feb 1944. Allied #3. USSR. Western Siberian Front.
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- 03ALUSSR.jpg (931.83 KiB) Viewed 247 times
Ronnie
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically
Turn 27. Jan/Feb 1944. Axis #5. Weather.
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- 05AXWeather.jpg (566.64 KiB) Viewed 247 times
Ronnie