Godzilla {J: Andav} vs. Rodan {A: witpqs}

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

It looks like it's time to create, plan, and execute a diversion..........somewhere else.
even if recon flights, ghost TFs, etc...

I've been giving that a lot of thought. I think if I do something small it will be seen as a diversion. No diversion at all might be best if I just send the fleet straight in when his carriers are seen somewhere - anywhere - not too close. Or something big, which I am not sure I have the means to do right now. That's the trouble with trying to pull off an operation like this so early: I just have limited resources to make a diversion credible.

[witpqs]

What I am going for strategically is to make the Marshall Islands the attrition slug fest which the Solomon Islands were historically.

[dave sindel]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Thanks for the summary. How soon is the first D-Day ?

I haven't calculated a fixed date. Here is a rundown of preparation items remaining.
• Some assault units are in transit to Pearl Harbor now; after arrival they switch from strategic to combat mode.
• Some AK's, many DD's, at least 2x BB's are currently upgrading at Pearl Harbor. IIRC they will be done by June 20-22.
• Most fleet oilers are on the way to Pearl Harbor from Pago Pago. Will all arrive in about a week or less.
• CV Wasp is on the way to Pearl Harbor from Panama Canal; will arrive in about 10-12 days.
• CVE Long Island is on the way to Pearl Harbor from Panama Canal; will arrive in 2 1/2 weeks or so. I might use LI to fly in carrier capable aircraft to captured airfields.
• Search squadrons available for captured bases are in transit to Pearl Harbor and should arrive in about a week.
• Some support units are in transit to Lahaina and should arrive in about a week (others are already at Pearl Harbor).
• Many AE's and AKE's loading at San Francisco will re-position to Pearl Harbor.
• Some AE/AKE will deploy to Johnston Island so that, together with AO's, they can replenish bombardment and surface combat groups in a shorter round-trip than going to Pearl Harbor. I am not 100% certain I can rearm all the battleships this way but we will see.
• 2 battleships are upgrading at San Francisco and will not be available at first but will follow during the operation.
• Conduct final repairs as needed on assigned ships currently at sea.
• Form all remaining TF's/convoys needed.
• Load assault units for the 4 first wave targets.
• Set off for target... in conjunction with Intel concerning whereabouts of IJN heavy carriers. I am very willing to delay departure or even turn around invasion if Intel dictates.

Most or all of this looks to me to be within the next 2 weeks. What do you think?

This is one of the parts of AE that fascinates me - the planning needed to make an operation successful. And then the angst of the "go / no go" decision.....

[zuluhour]

You speak the truth. The cupboard is, well, bare.

[witpqs]

1942 June 06

INVADED
Batavia, Changsha, Padang are also invested.

CHANGED OWNERSHIP
Boeton is occupied by the Japanese
Japanese forces CAPTURE Memboro !!!
Japanese forces CAPTURE Pakanbaroe !!!



Overall
• No carrier sightings.

• Could this be the convoy our sub attacked several days ago? Were reinforcements brought to Maloelap? The USA 27th Infantry Division is assigned to this assault and they should be able to handle anything on defense within reason.

Radio transmissions detected at Maloelap (136,117).

West Coast USA, Alaska, Hawaii
• Enemy sub activity near Molokai.

• Troop convoys proceeding without incident.

• A fuel convoy is loading at Los Angeles for Australia.


Pacific
• Enemy sub activity near Suva.


New Zealand, Australia, New Caledonia, New Hebrides, Solomons, Papua New Guinea, New Britain
• Enemy sub activity near Brisbane, Melbourne, Geraldton. Our CL force at Geraldton appears to be unseen.

• Fuel unloading at Melbourne; Fuel unloading at Sydney.


Philippines


DEI, Dutch new Guinea, Borneo, Malaya
• Got one!

Submarine attack near Sidate at 75,102

Japanese Ships
xAK Lima Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire

Allied Ships
SS Sealion

xAK Lima Maru is sighted by SS Sealion
SS Sealion launches 2 torpedoes at xAK Lima Maru

China
• They are making progress.

Ground combat at 84,42 (near Sian)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 72921 troops, 732 guns, 906 vehicles, Assault Value = 2195

Defending force 46305 troops, 202 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 768

Japanese adjusted assault: 1307

Allied adjusted defense: 964

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1703 casualties reported
Squads: 25 destroyed, 280 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 64 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 32 disabled
Guns lost 14 (4 destroyed, 10 disabled)
Vehicles lost 89 (5 destroyed, 84 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
1097 casualties reported
Squads: 78 destroyed, 47 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 18 disabled
Engineers: 4 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 15 (1 destroyed, 14 disabled)

Assaulting units:
3rd Tank Regiment
36th Division
34th Division
9th Tank Regiment
3rd Division
13th Tank Regiment
15th Tank Regiment
25th Division
23rd Tank Regiment
17th Division
11th Tank Regiment
6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
5th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
2nd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
4th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
3rd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
11th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
8th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
1st Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
10th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
38th Chinese Corps
9th Chinese Corps
33rd Chinese Corps
61st Chinese Corps
57th Chinese Corps
16th Chinese Corps
4th Chinese Cavalry Corps
115th Red Chinese Division

We have another unit coming in but it might not be enough. The Empire seems to have reinforced this point. Let's hope they are badly disrupted and running short on working AFV's after the last few assaults resulting in hundreds disabled altogether.


India, Burma, Thailand, Indochina
• Enemy sub activity near Karachi.


Japan, Korea, Manchuria, Russia
• Picky captain.

Sub attack near Shanghai at 94,56

Japanese Ships
PB Nikki Maru

Allied Ships
SS Sailfish, hits 1

Captain of SS Sailfish elects not to launch torpedoes at this target
Sailfish bottoming out ....
PB Nikki Maru fails to find sub, continues to search...
PB Nikki Maru fails to find sub, continues to search...
PB Nikki Maru fails to find sub, continues to search...
PB Nikki Maru attacking submerged sub ....
PB Nikki Maru fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

Complete combat report attached.

[witpqs]

1942 June 07

INVADED
Amphibious TF 63 offshore of Taberfane
Amphibious TF 114 offshore of Saumlaki
Batavia, Changsha are also invested.

CHANGED OWNERSHIP
Japanese forces CAPTURE Padang !!!



Overall
• No carrier sightings.


West Coast USA, Alaska, Hawaii
• Enemy sub activity near Pearl Harbor.

• Troop convoys continue without incident.

• A tanker convoy is departing Los Angeles for Australia.


Pacific
• Enemy sub activity near Eua. A tanker convoy which refueled at Pago Pago and is heading for Australia has DL 4/4.

• Such bad aim...

Sub attack near Truk at 110,107

Japanese Ships
xAP Taizan Maru
DD Hokaze

Allied Ships
SS Greenling

SS Greenling launches 4 torpedoes at xAP Taizan Maru
DD Hokaze fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Hokaze fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Hokaze fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

• Got one!

Submarine attack near Kusaie Island at 124,117

Japanese Ships
xAK Uji Maru, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Herring

xAK Uji Maru is sighted by SS Herring
SS Herring attacking on the surface

New Zealand, Australia, New Caledonia, New Hebrides, Solomons, Papua New Guinea, New Britain
• Enemy sub activity near King Island, Portsea, Melbourne, Brisbane, Townsville.

• Deployments to counter the invasion of NW Australia continue as planned. The 23rd Bde has reached Daly Waters and will dig in. A fresh P-39D Sqn has flown in while the other one (20 planes strong) has moved to Tennant Creek. There is a fresh P-40E Sqn at Alice Springs. All bases thought to be in any even remote danger of airborne assault have ground troops.

• Fuel unloading at Melbourne; Fuel unloading at Sydney. Two damaged xAK's finally made it to Auckland where they are unloading Supply and will enter the shipyard for repairs.


Philippines


DEI, Dutch new Guinea, Borneo, Malaya
• Sumatra is fading into history.

Ground combat at Padang (44,85)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 4813 troops, 41 guns, 26 vehicles, Assault Value = 164

Defending force 1186 troops, 5 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 27

Japanese adjusted assault: 152

Allied adjusted defense: 19

Japanese assault odds: 8 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Padang !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), fatigue(-), morale(-), experience(-)
Attacker: leaders(+)

Japanese ground losses:
65 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
1411 casualties reported
Squads: 38 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 60 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 4 (4 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 2

Assaulting units:
5th/A Division

Defending units:
Padang Cdo
Emmahaven Defenses

China
• The Empire appears to be pushing units against the position just across the river from Chihkiang. For a long time they had 1 unit on station and 1 just behind; now they have 3 units bombard every day plus 8 units just behind; plus many, many air strikes each day.


India, Burma, Thailand, Indochina
• Ledo airfield is now size 7.


Japan, Korea, Manchuria, Russia


Complete combat report attached.

[RangerJoe]

I would consider putting some extra Marine/Navy fighters on your carriers. Even Buffaloes would work against Betties/Nells/Kates. You have the room on your big carriers for the extra squadrons. Then the fighter units could go to captured bases for local defense.

As far as any bases not prepped for, why not add any paratroopers in your reserves? If you don't use them anywhere else, they can drop by PBY on a base that has been bombarded. This would then preclude any precious transports from getting plastered by CD guns.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I would consider putting some extra Marine/Navy fighters on your carriers. Even Buffaloes would work against Betties/Nells/Kates. You have the room on your big carriers for the extra squadrons. Then the fighter units could go to captured bases for local defense.
I have to check. I did have USMC fighter groups on carriers which had room, but they might have been pulled off for upgrades. I know I've gone through and brought all the USN groups on board to full strength. All the fighters are F4F of one mark or another; all the dive bombers are SBD-3; the torpedo bomber squadrons are partly upgraded to Avenger's.

As far as any bases not prepped for, why not add any paratroopers in your reserves? If you don't use them anywhere else, they can drop by PBY on a base that has been bombarded. This would then preclude any precious transports from getting plastered by CD guns.
I won't have extra room in any first wave assault ships for paras The thing is I think that would only work for empty bases or those with practically nothing there: won't the paras get like 99% disabled if they are not prepared for a target?

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I would consider putting some extra Marine/Navy fighters on your carriers. Even Buffaloes would work against Betties/Nells/Kates. You have the room on your big carriers for the extra squadrons. Then the fighter units could go to captured bases for local defense.
I have to check. I did have USMC fighter groups on carriers which had room, but they might have been pulled off for upgrades. I know I've gone through and brought all the USN groups on board to full strength. All the fighters are F4F of one mark or another; all the dive bombers are SBD-3; the torpedo bomber squadrons are partly upgraded to Avenger's.

As far as any bases not prepped for, why not add any paratroopers in your reserves? If you don't use them anywhere else, they can drop by PBY on a base that has been bombarded. This would then preclude any precious transports from getting plastered by CD guns.
I won't have extra room in any first wave assault ships for paras The thing is I think that would only work for empty bases or those with practically nothing there: won't the paras get like 99% disabled if they are not prepared for a target?

Re: the paras, I am not positive since I have done little para assaulting myself, but from other AARs it seems the prep for paras mainly affects their effectiveness in the combat phase. Many players seem to use paras for opportunity drops on undefended targets without great disruption.

[witpqs]

Yes, that's what I mean. Unoccupied bases OK. Bases with defenders where you bombard first then send in paras I think they will still get eaten alive.

[witpqs]

I should add I have little transport to drop paras, and need to prioritize what aircraft I put at captured bases.

[RangerJoe]

In the WITP-Manual-[LIGHT], in section 8.2.1.4, it states that a high preparation value reduces losses in amphibious invasions but it does not state anything about airborne invasions. I believe that you would have the normal shock attack. If the ground unit was hit by air and naval bombardment, maybe even for several turns, the damage should mitigate the loses from the airborne units involved. Starting preparation now would not hurt but the airborne could also be used to get forces ashore, cause damage and be reinforced in subsequent turns.

** edit: Use any PBY units to drop the paratroopers available if you can't get regular transport planes to the area in time.

[zuluhour]

SST

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

SST

I have no idea what you mean?

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

In the WITP-Manual-[LIGHT], in section 8.2.1.4, it states that a high preparation value reduces losses in amphibious invasions but it does not state anything about airborne invasions. I believe that you would have the normal shock attack. If the ground unit was hit by air and naval bombardment, maybe even for several turns, the damage should mitigate the loses from the airborne units involved. Starting preparation now would not hurt but the airborne could also be used to get forces ashore, cause damage and be reinforced in subsequent turns.

** edit: Use any PBY units to drop the paratroopers available if you can't get regular transport planes to the area in time.

Interesting. So did they merely not say it applies or does it not apply? If anybody knows for sure please chime in!

The PBY idea is interesting but at this point in the campaign I very jealously guard those groups for use in naval search. I am not sure about using them for assault drops. Friendly to friendly transport is not so risky (no AA). I'll have to think about it as the situation develops.

[RangerJoe]

I think that it would be just like any other airborne attack. How much AAA would a CD unit have? Same thing with any SNLF or Naval Guard unit. If it is not a larger unit, a base force and definitely an AAA unit, then there is little anti-aircraft capability except for machine guns/cannons. Fly above the range of those. If your carriers are in the area, a LRCAP should reduce defending fighters. But then again, how many players would CAP a base not appearing to be a target? Especially if there was air action earlier, there may not be much of a defensive CAP left.

The drop would only necessitate one turn, then either reinforcement by ships borne assault units or evacuation. The idea is that if there is only a CD unit there, then you can smash the unit by bombing and/or naval bombardment just before the airborne landings.

Another thing to point out is that the Marine paratroopers might be withdrawn. In the Reluctant Admiral scenario that I am playing, they withdraw on 2 March 1944. So if the squad devices don't "upgrade" to regular squads, then they are just left in the pool. Not that you get a lot of them but use them or lose them. And using them to capture bases that the Japanese have few combat troops are a good use for them, in my humble opinion, instead of doing lots of preparation and gathering invasion forces.

[jwolf]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

SST

I have no idea what you mean?

I think SST means sub transport. But don't you need prep for that, too?

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: jwolf

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

SST

I have no idea what you mean?

I think SST means sub transport. But don't you need prep for that, too?

Ah, yes! And: yes it's just an amphibious landing AFAIK.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I think that it would be just like any other airborne attack. How much AAA would a CD unit have? Same thing with any SNLF or Naval Guard unit. If it is not a larger unit, a base force and definitely an AAA unit, then there is little anti-aircraft capability except for machine guns/cannons. Fly above the range of those. If your carriers are in the area, a LRCAP should reduce defending fighters. But then again, how many players would CAP a base not appearing to be a target? Especially if there was air action earlier, there may not be much of a defensive CAP left.

The drop would only necessitate one turn, then either reinforcement by ships borne assault units or evacuation. The idea is that if there is only a CD unit there, then you can smash the unit by bombing and/or naval bombardment just before the airborne landings.

Another thing to point out is that the Marine paratroopers might be withdrawn. In the Reluctant Admiral scenario that I am playing, they withdraw on 2 March 1944. So if the squad devices don't "upgrade" to regular squads, then they are just left in the pool. Not that you get a lot of them but use them or lose them. And using them to capture bases that the Japanese have few combat troops are a good use for them, in my humble opinion, instead of doing lots of preparation and gathering invasion forces.

It's a good idea.

BTW, the USMC Raider Bns and Parachute Bns get withdrawn in all historical scenarios because IRL they were withdrawn to helped form the 5th and 6th USMC Divisions.

Also BTW, the way the game does things I think it safe to assume that the parachute drop routines model the plane going down to a "drop" altitude much like it does torpedo bombers for AA purposes.

[RangerJoe]

I also don't think that the Japanese would expect a para drop in the area at that time - especially if you are having regular invasions preceded by a few days of bombardment. The airdrop on the day of any bombardment could be too much for the enemy high command to defend against since they would most likely be moving in reinforcements or removing fragments of units - in the case of units that can't be rebuilt, it would be the only way to have them at another location at a later date. If you already have smashed most of the other defensive bases in the area and the KB is not in the area, it could be the nail in the coffin for any attempt to try and reclaim/contest the area.