A shortcut to find units with special abilities?

[Fred98]

I note that some units have special abilities such as recon or engineering.

Is there a short cut way to find those units with special abilities?

.

[Lobster]

Right click the unit and select Show Unit Report. After playing a few scenarios you'll not have to do that as much.

[John T_MatrixForum]

Not that I am aware of
but it is a very nice feature in those games that uses it.

Like finding rail repair, bridge engineers, and getting an overview of AAA deployments.

Ought to be on the wish list.

Cheers
/John

[Fred98]

Can I use the unit graphics to get a clue without having to click on every unit on the map?
.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Fred98
Can I use the unit graphics to get a clue without having to click on every unit on the map?

Yes, although it might not be 100% complete, because units could be assigned a secondary icon (not displayed) which grants them the capabilities of the secondary icon. But I think that these are rather rare.

[Curtis Lemay]

See posts #12-20 here:

tm.asp?m=4380544

[John T_MatrixForum]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

See posts #12-20 here:

tm.asp?m=4380544

Good start, but the status bar and the "floating tooltip" haven't been updated,
the text still only shows "movement" or "attack and defence strengths"
so you have to guess what the numbers stand for.

Is this on the known bug list ?

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: John T_MatrixForum

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

See posts #12-20 here:

tm.asp?m=4380544

Good start, but the status bar and the "floating tooltip" haven't been updated,
the text still only shows "movement" or "attack and defence strengths"
so you have to guess what the numbers stand for.

Is this on the known bug list ?

But YOU the player are the one who decided what numbers are to be shown. Wouldn't you know what you had done? [;)]

That would be a nightmare to code. Especially since the player can move 44 different numbers around so many different places. Just sayin.

[John T_MatrixForum]

ORIGINAL: Lobster

ORIGINAL: John T_MatrixForum

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

See posts #12-20 here:

tm.asp?m=4380544

Good start, but the status bar and the "floating tooltip" haven't been updated,
the text still only shows "movement" or "attack and defence strengths"
so you have to guess what the numbers stand for.

Is this on the known bug list ?

But YOU the player are the one who decided what numbers are to be shown. Wouldn't you know what you had done? [;)]

That would be a nightmare to code. Especially since the player can move 44 different numbers around so many different places. Just sayin.

Claiming that the problem is on the user isn't in my book of professional software design.

Well, there is something called user interface design and in the professional business of modern software development, the software are expected to support the user.

Currently the game lies to the end user by claiming the numbers are either "movement" or "attack and defence strengths"
while the actually means something else.
Someone wrote the code that made the behavior to change but did not bother to change the user dialog while toggling between the new options.
That is a bug. Period


IF this would be a nightmare to code then the code must be in a terrible state.
Today the list uses two different strings {"movement" ,"attack and defence strengths"},
what is the problem if the list changed to contain the 44 different strings?

And show the text explaining the currently used value
out of the options the user has selected,
The code already changes the counters just have to add the explanatory text.

Just saying

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: John T_MatrixForum

Claiming that the problem is on the user isn't in my book of professional software design.

Well, there is something called user interface design and in the professional business of modern software development, the software are expected to support the user.

Currently the game lies to the end user by claiming the numbers are either "movement" or "attack and defence strengths"
while the actually means something else.
Someone wrote the code that made the behavior to change but did not bother to change the user dialog while toggling between the new options.
That is a bug. Period


IF this would be a nightmare to code then the code must be in a terrible state.
Today the list uses two different strings {"movement" ,"attack and defence strengths"},
what is the problem if the list changed to contain the 44 different strings?

And show the text explaining the currently used value
out of the options the user has selected,
The code already changes the counters just have to add the explanatory text.

Just saying

A bug is when the code doesn't do what the designer intended. That's not the case here.

Your claim is similar to saying that a stick shift is malfunctioning if the car maker failed to label each position on the shift box with '1', '2', '3', '4', '5', & 'R'. Of course, the user doesn't even look for such labels (he'd get in a wreck if he did).

As Lobster pointed out, what is being displayed is pretty obvious, and you set it up yourself. Our precious code budget must be judiciously prioritized.

[larryfulkerson]

As Lobster pointed out, what is being displayed is pretty obvious....

Evidently it's not....since there's a question about it. And I think he's got a valid
point. Us old timers can probably eventually figure it out what the numbers mean but
somebody new to the game would be confused right off the bat. And I like the idea of
the software supporting the user. Anybody should be able to sit down in front of TOAW V
and play it without having to read anything or go through some kind of tutorial but
maybe a video he could watch one time to get the idea and just play it without a problem
or some kind of frequently gamestopping click on something not fully understood. It
should be user friendly. Anything short of that was written by programmers for other
programmers to play with.

EDIT: That may be too kind.
EDIT2: I justify the previous statement by pointing to the incredable learning curve that is associated with
the TOAW series. The number of workarounds that have been developed to forstall shorcomings. It's a toy and
I love it a lot. I hardly ever play anything else. It's great fun. But it's not perfect yet.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
As Lobster pointed out, what is being displayed is pretty obvious...

Yes, for people who have been playing for twenty years (or whatever). The fact is that there is a lot in the game which is not very obvious for new players. And while I think that manual is generally pretty good, it is confusing/incomplete in parts, and the lack of an index often makes it difficult to find what you're looking for, even if it is there.

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Anybody should be able to sit down in front of TOAW V
and play it without having to read anything or go through some kind of tutorial

[:D][:D][:D] That's just ludicrous. There are not many games you can sit down and just play. If someone has never played checkers they need to read the manual or they don't know how to play even that simple game.

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
As Lobster pointed out, what is being displayed is pretty obvious...

Yes, for people who have been playing for twenty years (or whatever). The fact is that there is a lot in the game which is not very obvious for new players. And while I think that manual is generally pretty good, it is confusing/incomplete in parts, and the lack of an index often makes it difficult to find what you're looking for, even if it is there.

The player sets up how the numbers will display. The player, gamer, user, whatever handle you want to give them. If you make something then how do you not know what you just did???? It's not random, it's done by the player with purpose.

Yes, there are many things that have been added or changed since the release. And yes, we all have to look for the how to on the forums. But it is there and it appears to me that in asking the how to is found. I don't think there is anyone who is editing the manual simply because they are working on the game. Perhaps someone would like to volunteer to add an index and keep the manual up to date?

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Yes, for people who have been playing for twenty years (or whatever). The fact is that there is a lot in the game which is not very obvious for new players. And while I think that manual is generally pretty good, it is confusing/incomplete in parts, and the lack of an index often makes it difficult to find what you're looking for, even if it is there.

Why would you need an index to a digital document that you can search electronically?

And there is the presumption that everything anyone wants is cost free. That's just not the way it is. If you want another two years spent on the UI, you can kiss gobs of actual features goodbye.

[Rosseau]

Just keep those new scenarios coming [;)]

[sPzAbt653]

I am approaching 20 years and it is not obvious to me! So I will tell you how this old school player handles the situation [:)]
We can put nine different values on the counter [two at a time] and cycle thru them by hitting 'M'. I don't need to know nine different values for every scenario, for most only two are used. For some scenarios it is important to know what units have Rail Repair ability and Major Ford ability, for example. In this case those abilities can be set to display first [as seen below] while the mouse over will still display the Attack and Defense strengths [as seen in the C/P'd Info Bar at bottom].
I will typically leave A & D as the first display, and hit M to quickly see the next most important values, then M thru quickly to return to A & D. Once a scenario has been played a few times, then the player will pretty much know what they have in their OOB and won't even have to do this anymore.

While I agree with the original post [and that guy is a very new player who has difficulty with TOAW], I have to support Bob's statement that coding time is precious. It would be much more important to return some of the original functionality that has been lost rather than add in new features that aren't really necessary. An example of original functionality that has been lost is this very topic. Mouse overs of the unit and transport properties in the original UI are no longer displayed [:-] This should be considered something that doesn't work as intended and it should be repaired.

[John T_MatrixForum]

Well
if the game intentional is designed so when adding the new functionality with editable counters
the status bar still should only show the old alternatives then I can't help with the design process.

I am fully aware this is a minor issue, if you call it "a bug", "ommission", "defect" or "unpredictable behavior" or whatever isn't the point.

My intention was to point at a small and as I assumed, easily implemented correction of the games behaviour.
That would make the game that would cause a little bit less confusion for the user.


Kind Regards
/John
Casual player of the system since TOAW I 1939-55

[Curtis Lemay]

This is now fixed. Here's a shot when the values are AP & DF:

[Curtis Lemay]

Here's a shot after switching to stack strengths: