In Hex Rivers Revisited...Yet Again.

[Shadrach]

Sorry to butt in here, just wondering about a hex like this below, with both a super river, and road. Does it actually count as a river crossing, even though there are no bridges?
Because I've seen that this hex works for crossing a river where otherwise it would be impossible.



Is this a consequence of the in-hex rivers or something else?

[goranw]

Hi!
This was a suggestion from many years ago when it was discussed.
Goran

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: Shadrach

Sorry to butt in here, just wondering about a hex like this below, with both a super river, and road. Does it actually count as a river crossing, even though there are no bridges?
Because I've seen that this hex works for crossing a river where otherwise it would be impossible.



Is this a consequence of the in-hex rivers or something else?

[:D] Another long standing issue with in hex rivers. At least it can no longer be destroyed. Perhaps the same code that prevents destruction of roads like that can be modified to include river crossing costs?

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: Fred98

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

No. They're next to the hexsides. Not the same as being ON them.

You are being pedantic. The graphic is next to the hex side. For movement purposes an escarpment is on the hex side.

Any unit is always on one side or the other of an escarpment. I wish it were the case for a river.
.

Graphical effects have to be coded too. Putting the graphic ON the hexside is a tougher problem than just next to it.

[nepos2]

Hello, could it not be possible to have both? Since all the scenarios have in-hex rivers that feature has to remain but hexside rivers could perhaps be implemented as a choice in the editor for new scenarios. Possibly the engine could handle both versions?

[biddrafter2]

I wonder if a hybrid approach is the best solution. Why one or the other when there can be both? Why not improve the modeling of rivers?

Offloading the details onto scenario designers provides the most bang for the buck. Of course, this comment does not consider whether or not the ideas are feasible within the current code base, or even whether or not the ideas would make the game less enjoyable to play!

Three main changes would be needed:

1. Allow hex-side rivers to be used alongside existing in-hex rivers. It would be up to the scenario designer to chose which is appropriate. Hex-side could transition into in-hex rivers and vice versa. If a map is stronger with one approach than another it should accommodated. If one region of map is stronger in-hex, and another hex-side, it should be accommodated.

2. One big advantage of in-hex rivers is modeling of meanders and terrain complications along river. For many locations this is most appropriate. The game should allow scenario designers to adjust the attacking penalty from in-hex rivers on a per hex basis. The multiplier range could be extreme.... say from 10% to 90%. This should be communicated to players via the UI.

3. Similar to #2, movement costs and ferry adjustments should also be customizable per hex by a designer. Rivers come with a massive number of classes (rapids, bank steepness, depth, meanders, etc). Modeling these without scenario designer adjustments available may have been a necessary simplification, but it works against the strongest argument for in-hex rivers!

[76mm]

Well, I'd be all for allowing scenario designers to choose between in-hex and hexside rivers, but my guess is that mixing and matching them within the same map could be "a bridge too far", as they say.

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Well, I'd be all for allowing scenario designers to choose between in-hex and hexside rivers, but my guess is that mixing and matching them within the same map could be "a bridge too far", as they say.

Aye, that would be a nightmare. One or the other fine. But both at once? In fact, one or the other is necessary since all of the current scenarios have in hex rivers. So a designer either/or switch is absolutely needed.

If it ever happens it will be a long way down the road, around the bend, over the river, to the port, board the ship, sail across the sea, get off the boat, down another road, across another bridge, climb the mountain and plant the hex side river flag. [:D]