A Clash of Titans, Xhoel (Axis) vs Bitburger (Soviet)
Moderators: Joel Billings, Sabre21
- EwaldvonKleist
- Posts: 2410
- Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:58 pm
- Location: Berlin, Germany
RE: T10
Yes
The Library of Gary Grigsby's War in the East resources.
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RE: T10
ORIGINAL: MarauderPL
Can't the Kerch industry be evacuated by ships anyway?
Didn't know that. Thanks for pointing it out.
AAR WITW: Gotterdammerung 43-45
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AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
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AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
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RE: T10
ORIGINAL: chaos45
your doing very well, as good if not better than historical, As well you landed a pocket in the north and south.
Thanks for the kind words chaos45.
AAR WITW: Gotterdammerung 43-45
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AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
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AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
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RE: T10
Just catching up on this AAR. It is fantastic- although looking at some of the disasters the Soviet has endured I feel for him. I am not sure how he can recover from the Pskov encirclement alone, much less the Luga encirclement that followed. Anyways, great AAR, very interesting and entertaining.
RE: T10
ORIGINAL: AFV
Just catching up on this AAR. It is fantastic- although looking at some of the disasters the Soviet has endured I feel for him. I am not sure how he can recover from the Pskov encirclement alone, much less the Luga encirclement that followed. Anyways, great AAR, very interesting and entertaining.
Thanks for the kind words AFV. Stay tuned for more!
AAR WITW: Gotterdammerung 43-45
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AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
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AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
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RE: T10
Very interesting AAR. I'm also playing against Bitburger at the moment, but with reverse sides, he's German and i'm the soviet. We shall begin the 1942 summer to day, after a balanced 1941 year
One thing which impresses me in your AAR is the mobility of your units. This was the case with the PSkov pocket, but again here, notably at Stalino. However, when I see your starting positions for the Stalino attack for example, I have the feeling that if you fail even only one hasty attack or having the center units (in the south) not routing, the whole attack would not work ?
One thing which impresses me in your AAR is the mobility of your units. This was the case with the PSkov pocket, but again here, notably at Stalino. However, when I see your starting positions for the Stalino attack for example, I have the feeling that if you fail even only one hasty attack or having the center units (in the south) not routing, the whole attack would not work ?
RE: T10
ORIGINAL: mouse707
Very interesting AAR. I'm also playing against Bitburger at the moment, but with reverse sides, he's German and i'm the soviet. We shall begin the 1942 summer to day, after a balanced 1941 year
One thing which impresses me in your AAR is the mobility of your units. This was the case with the PSkov pocket, but again here, notably at Stalino. However, when I see your starting positions for the Stalino attack for example, I have the feeling that if you fail even only one hasty attack or having the center units (in the south) not routing, the whole attack would not work ?
Hey mouse, thanks for the kind words. How did your 1941 look like? What cities fell? Casualties wise? I wish you luck for the summer, you will need it.
In regards to mobility I didn't really do something special. For the Pskov pocket, the armored units sat building supplies and resting for around 3 turns if I recall correctly. In the case of the Stalino one, that Pz Corps had done a HQ Build Up 2 turns ago and didn't participate in offensive operations.
The attack thing is a yes and no kind of thing. Bitburger is using a lot of cavalry and armored units in reserve and he is getting a lot of activation out of them. Almost all the attacks I have done have been deliberate ones (I learned from the failure of my offensive in the sector of AGC). But some attacks have been hasty ones with 2-3 units participating in the attack. What really helped me is that I deployed the Pz Corp in the swamps and therefore avoided detection by Soviet recon. I faced much little resistance breaching from the south.
AAR WITW: Gotterdammerung 43-45
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AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
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AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
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RE: T10
We're in mid-june, just 1 turn before the full 1942 summer. Leningrad has been taken quickly, and the frontline follows Novgorod, Velikie Luki, Smolensk, Gomel, Kiev, Nikolaev. Bitburger has chosen to loose ground rather than troops during the winter, so he's been pushed back to the rivers. Moreover, i do not retreat to defend and hold the ground from turn 1 (it does not function with a german turn 1 that destroy the whole russian army).


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RE: T10
It is quite impressive that the Germans are pushed that far back. I doubt he will have enough time to break into the Caucasus. Does he have bridgeheads over the Dnepr?
AAR WITW: Gotterdammerung 43-45
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AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
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AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
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RE: T10
Unfortunately yes, he has managed to keep an open door putting his Mountain Korps and all his mountain divisions to stop the push. Consequently, I also left the swamps in the north, units here won't be able to escape a panzer push towards the north.
We'll see if he can make panzer runs as in your game.

We'll see if he can make panzer runs as in your game.

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RE: T10
Well I wish you good luck in summer 
AAR WITW: Gotterdammerung 43-45
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AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
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AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
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RE: T10
Thanks, but from where I am sitting it looks nothing like it.
AAR WITW: Gotterdammerung 43-45
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AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
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AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
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RE: T12
T12, 4th of September-11th of September 1941
Finnish front:
The Finnish Karelian Army manages to punch through the defensive lines of the 7th Independent Army after heavy fighting in a terrain that does not favor the attacker at all. Nevertheless vanguard units of the 4th Finnish Infantry Division reach the Svir river line. The pressure on the Soviets is mounting as they have to garrison the entire Svir river line (110 miles) and they do not have many units to spare.
Situation at the start of the week:

Situation after Finnish moves:

AGN
The pocket at Novogorod holds and is liquidated by the L and LI corps. The Soviets have pulled many units from Leningrad itself to ensure that the front east of the Volkhov river doesn't completely evaporate. The terrain, the VVS and the bitter resistance of the Soviets make the advance difficult. The Soviets know very well that if our units reach the Svir line the entire Northern Front will be annihilated and Leningrad will fall and fight stubbornly.
Situation at the start of the week:

The determined Soviet resistance doesn't prevent us from continuing our advance north though. The 18th Army and the 4th Panzer Group advance 50 miles routing numerous Soviet formations in the process. We are still 70 miles away from linking up with the Finnish forces in Karelia and there is little doubt that the enemy will do everything possible to hinder our advance. The XXXXI Panzer Corps is pulled back for R&R and will be ready for offensive action next week. Intelligence and recon patrols indicate that the Soviets have even moved cadre divisions in the area to form whatever kind of defenses they can.
Situation after German moves:

German advance shown in white, weakened Soviet positions near Leningrad in red and Soviet cadre divisions in black
South of lake Ilmen the Soviet units disengage from the Pola river line and pull back further north-east and east trying to form some sort of defensive line. Our units follow on their heals. Morale is high among the troops who are relieved to not have to fight on the hilly terrain around Demyansk.
One positive thing from this week is seeing that the enemy has weakened his position around Leningrad in order to reinforce the area around the Volkhov river. This might as well play into our favor if more units are pulled from Leningrad in the following weeks.
In the air the LW continues bitter fighting in the air and raids on Soviet airfields. The port of Sviritsa is hit again but it doesn't sustain a lot of damage (4% damage).


Finnish front:
The Finnish Karelian Army manages to punch through the defensive lines of the 7th Independent Army after heavy fighting in a terrain that does not favor the attacker at all. Nevertheless vanguard units of the 4th Finnish Infantry Division reach the Svir river line. The pressure on the Soviets is mounting as they have to garrison the entire Svir river line (110 miles) and they do not have many units to spare.
Situation at the start of the week:

Situation after Finnish moves:

AGN
The pocket at Novogorod holds and is liquidated by the L and LI corps. The Soviets have pulled many units from Leningrad itself to ensure that the front east of the Volkhov river doesn't completely evaporate. The terrain, the VVS and the bitter resistance of the Soviets make the advance difficult. The Soviets know very well that if our units reach the Svir line the entire Northern Front will be annihilated and Leningrad will fall and fight stubbornly.
Situation at the start of the week:

The determined Soviet resistance doesn't prevent us from continuing our advance north though. The 18th Army and the 4th Panzer Group advance 50 miles routing numerous Soviet formations in the process. We are still 70 miles away from linking up with the Finnish forces in Karelia and there is little doubt that the enemy will do everything possible to hinder our advance. The XXXXI Panzer Corps is pulled back for R&R and will be ready for offensive action next week. Intelligence and recon patrols indicate that the Soviets have even moved cadre divisions in the area to form whatever kind of defenses they can.
Situation after German moves:

German advance shown in white, weakened Soviet positions near Leningrad in red and Soviet cadre divisions in black
South of lake Ilmen the Soviet units disengage from the Pola river line and pull back further north-east and east trying to form some sort of defensive line. Our units follow on their heals. Morale is high among the troops who are relieved to not have to fight on the hilly terrain around Demyansk.
One positive thing from this week is seeing that the enemy has weakened his position around Leningrad in order to reinforce the area around the Volkhov river. This might as well play into our favor if more units are pulled from Leningrad in the following weeks.
In the air the LW continues bitter fighting in the air and raids on Soviet airfields. The port of Sviritsa is hit again but it doesn't sustain a lot of damage (4% damage).


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- Leningrad after.jpg (1.06 MiB) Viewed 586 times
AAR WITW: Gotterdammerung 43-45
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AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
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AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
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RE: T12
AGC
The surrounded Soviet divisions in the sector of AGC are liquidated by the VI Corps without any difficulty. The Soviets are defending in deep all along the sector (in certain parts of the front the defenses are 60 miles deep). In face of the situation AGC takes the decision to focus on the area around Kaluga which offers some space for panzer manouvers.
Positions at the start of the week:


Taking part in the operation are the 4th Army, 2nd Panzer Groups, elements of the 9th Army and elements of the 3rd Panzer Group. The complete airpower of Luftflotte 2 is concentrated on this sector.
The 4th Army breaches Soviet defenses on the Oka while elements of the 9th Army breach Soviet defenses north of Kaluga. The openings are exploited by the 2nd Panzer Group which engages in bitter fighting with dug in Soviet units. The final blow is given by von Arnims LVII Panzer Corps (3rd Panzer Group). 9 Rifle Divisions, 2 Tank Divisions and 1 AT Brigade are trapped in the Kaluga pocket and numerous Soviet formations are routed. There is a chance that the enemy can breach through the perimeter because the Soviets have some strong mobile formations in the vicinity.

The weak link of the Kaluga pocket marked in black, Soviet armored formations in the vicinity marked in red.
AGC sector overview:

The heavy fighting in the Kaluga operation has proven that the battle for Moscow will not be an easy one. The Soviets are well dug in and are defending in depth. Each day that passes brings the winter closer and reminds us that we are on borrowed time.
Further to the South, the 2nd Army keeps advancing following the Soviet troops on their retreat. Our units are now 20 miles away from both Kursk and Orel.


The surrounded Soviet divisions in the sector of AGC are liquidated by the VI Corps without any difficulty. The Soviets are defending in deep all along the sector (in certain parts of the front the defenses are 60 miles deep). In face of the situation AGC takes the decision to focus on the area around Kaluga which offers some space for panzer manouvers.
Positions at the start of the week:


Taking part in the operation are the 4th Army, 2nd Panzer Groups, elements of the 9th Army and elements of the 3rd Panzer Group. The complete airpower of Luftflotte 2 is concentrated on this sector.
The 4th Army breaches Soviet defenses on the Oka while elements of the 9th Army breach Soviet defenses north of Kaluga. The openings are exploited by the 2nd Panzer Group which engages in bitter fighting with dug in Soviet units. The final blow is given by von Arnims LVII Panzer Corps (3rd Panzer Group). 9 Rifle Divisions, 2 Tank Divisions and 1 AT Brigade are trapped in the Kaluga pocket and numerous Soviet formations are routed. There is a chance that the enemy can breach through the perimeter because the Soviets have some strong mobile formations in the vicinity.

The weak link of the Kaluga pocket marked in black, Soviet armored formations in the vicinity marked in red.
AGC sector overview:

The heavy fighting in the Kaluga operation has proven that the battle for Moscow will not be an easy one. The Soviets are well dug in and are defending in depth. Each day that passes brings the winter closer and reminds us that we are on borrowed time.
Further to the South, the 2nd Army keeps advancing following the Soviet troops on their retreat. Our units are now 20 miles away from both Kursk and Orel.


- Attachments
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- Moscow.jpg (1.2 MiB) Viewed 586 times
AAR WITW: Gotterdammerung 43-45
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AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
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AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
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RE: T12
AGS
The Dnepropetrovsk pocket is broken and the Soviets manage to evacuate some cavalry divisions during the week. The 13th Panzer Division defending the Stalino area is cut off as well as some of the motorized regiments guarding the outer perimeter of the pocket. The enemy has pulled most of the units from Kharkov towards Stalino and the Dnepropetrovsk putting pressure on our motorized regiments defending the outer perimeter of the encircled Soviet troops.
Overview of the situation:

Closer look at the now opened Dnepropetrovsk pocket:

The main goal of AGS is to reestablish the pocket and regain contact with our trapped forces. The plan formed is a daring one: it involves a northern hook, with the aim of trapping the relief Soviet troops as well as the ones encircled last week. In order to do that the 17th Army as well as elements of the 6th and 11th Army break through Soviet defenses south of the Donets river. The 30 mile wide corridor enables our panzers to try the northern hook. The operation fails. Our Panzer Divisions, low on fuel, fatigued and with an ever decreasing number of running tanks only manage to advance 20 miles before they are stopped on their tracks.

Axis movement during the week is shown by black arrows, circled in black are the 2 motorized regiments that will have to endure the Soviet assault.
The southern thrust by the LIV Corps also makes little progress as most infantry divisions are low on supplies and fodder for horses is in short supply (almost all infantry divisions are on 25% supplies and last week they only received 15% of their needed tonnage).
Supply situation of one of the Infantry Divisions belonging to the LIV Corps:

With the failure of the northern hook orders are given to reestablish the pocket again and for the 13th Panzer Division to breakthrough to the west. The motorized regiments are thrown into battle again and the pocket is reestablished. There is little doubt that the defenses will not hold but we have hope that if the Soviets commit more troops to the rescue the northern hook may eventually work. The regiments are supplied by air. The 13th Panzer Division is ordered to abandon Gorlovka and reestablish connection with our main body of forces.
Further north the 6th Army makes contact with the Soviets and even attacks Soviet forward positions west of Kharkov. The 3rd Rumanian Army, the Italian Expeditionary Corps and the Hungarian Mobile Corps are also in contact with the Soviets in this sector.
Positions at the start of the week:

Marked in black, Soviet formations pushed back during the fighting this week.
Positions after Axis moves:

TOEs of all formations are suffering heavily, most panzer divisions are at 60-70% of their TOEs. Several Infantry and motorized divisions are on those percentages too.
Panzer TOEs:

TOE Motorized:

Infantry TOEs:

The Dnepropetrovsk pocket is broken and the Soviets manage to evacuate some cavalry divisions during the week. The 13th Panzer Division defending the Stalino area is cut off as well as some of the motorized regiments guarding the outer perimeter of the pocket. The enemy has pulled most of the units from Kharkov towards Stalino and the Dnepropetrovsk putting pressure on our motorized regiments defending the outer perimeter of the encircled Soviet troops.
Overview of the situation:

Closer look at the now opened Dnepropetrovsk pocket:

The main goal of AGS is to reestablish the pocket and regain contact with our trapped forces. The plan formed is a daring one: it involves a northern hook, with the aim of trapping the relief Soviet troops as well as the ones encircled last week. In order to do that the 17th Army as well as elements of the 6th and 11th Army break through Soviet defenses south of the Donets river. The 30 mile wide corridor enables our panzers to try the northern hook. The operation fails. Our Panzer Divisions, low on fuel, fatigued and with an ever decreasing number of running tanks only manage to advance 20 miles before they are stopped on their tracks.

Axis movement during the week is shown by black arrows, circled in black are the 2 motorized regiments that will have to endure the Soviet assault.
The southern thrust by the LIV Corps also makes little progress as most infantry divisions are low on supplies and fodder for horses is in short supply (almost all infantry divisions are on 25% supplies and last week they only received 15% of their needed tonnage).
Supply situation of one of the Infantry Divisions belonging to the LIV Corps:

With the failure of the northern hook orders are given to reestablish the pocket again and for the 13th Panzer Division to breakthrough to the west. The motorized regiments are thrown into battle again and the pocket is reestablished. There is little doubt that the defenses will not hold but we have hope that if the Soviets commit more troops to the rescue the northern hook may eventually work. The regiments are supplied by air. The 13th Panzer Division is ordered to abandon Gorlovka and reestablish connection with our main body of forces.
Further north the 6th Army makes contact with the Soviets and even attacks Soviet forward positions west of Kharkov. The 3rd Rumanian Army, the Italian Expeditionary Corps and the Hungarian Mobile Corps are also in contact with the Soviets in this sector.
Positions at the start of the week:

Marked in black, Soviet formations pushed back during the fighting this week.
Positions after Axis moves:

TOEs of all formations are suffering heavily, most panzer divisions are at 60-70% of their TOEs. Several Infantry and motorized divisions are on those percentages too.
Panzer TOEs:

TOE Motorized:

Infantry TOEs:

- Attachments
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- pocket.jpg (845.19 KiB) Viewed 586 times
AAR WITW: Gotterdammerung 43-45
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AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
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WitE 2 Tester and Test Coordinator
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AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
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WitE 2 Tester and Test Coordinator
RE: T12
The Crimea
The XXX Corps and the III Romanian Corps make contact with the enemy who is retreating towards Kerch and Sevastopol. Our attack on Simferopol is held back by the Soviets.
Positions at the start of the week:

Positions after Axis moves:

Advance shown in white, the black marked position is Simferopol.
The XXX Corps and the III Romanian Corps make contact with the enemy who is retreating towards Kerch and Sevastopol. Our attack on Simferopol is held back by the Soviets.
Positions at the start of the week:

Positions after Axis moves:

Advance shown in white, the black marked position is Simferopol.
AAR WITW: Gotterdammerung 43-45
tm.asp?m=4490035
AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
tm.asp?m=4488465
WitE 2 Tester and Test Coordinator
tm.asp?m=4490035
AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
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WitE 2 Tester and Test Coordinator
RE: T12
Casualties and OOB.
The OKH has released our OOB numbers and estimated Soviet ones. The look as follows:

Ground Casualties:
The fighting of this week was very brutal on all three axes of advance. The Kaluga operation and the heavy fighting on the Donbass clearly show their effects. Around 7.000 men are KIA and three times that much are wounded. Our casualties have now crossed 231.000 while the Soviets are nearing the 2 million mark.
Loss ratio in men is 8.5:1
Loss ratio in guns is 7:1
Loss ratio in AVFs is 8:1

Air Casualties:
In the air the Soviets continue their attacks on our airfields even though they take horrendous losses. Intelligence reports indicate that the VVS is losing around 900 planes per week. Cause for celebration this week was the destruction of the 10.000nd Soviet plane. We also cross the 1.000 mark, giving a loss ratio of 10:1 in our favor.

The OKH has released our OOB numbers and estimated Soviet ones. The look as follows:

Ground Casualties:
The fighting of this week was very brutal on all three axes of advance. The Kaluga operation and the heavy fighting on the Donbass clearly show their effects. Around 7.000 men are KIA and three times that much are wounded. Our casualties have now crossed 231.000 while the Soviets are nearing the 2 million mark.
Loss ratio in men is 8.5:1
Loss ratio in guns is 7:1
Loss ratio in AVFs is 8:1

Air Casualties:
In the air the Soviets continue their attacks on our airfields even though they take horrendous losses. Intelligence reports indicate that the VVS is losing around 900 planes per week. Cause for celebration this week was the destruction of the 10.000nd Soviet plane. We also cross the 1.000 mark, giving a loss ratio of 10:1 in our favor.

AAR WITW: Gotterdammerung 43-45
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AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
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WitE 2 Tester and Test Coordinator
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AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
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WitE 2 Tester and Test Coordinator
RE: T12
As you have mentioned you aren't a "pro" at this game yet as the Germans you are over 1 month ahead of historical gains...in fact I would say its close to 2 months ahead of historical in many areas. That is why many of us longer time players are talking about the balance issues for Soviets.
The Soviet player isn't playing a bad game and is defending whats important but is still getting absolutely trashed faster than historical.
Players want to win and thats understandable but both sides need an equal hand, or as close to that as possible at the start and based on game rules.
The Soviet player isn't playing a bad game and is defending whats important but is still getting absolutely trashed faster than historical.
Players want to win and thats understandable but both sides need an equal hand, or as close to that as possible at the start and based on game rules.



