folgore vs beaufighterVIC

Gary Grigsby’s War in the West 1943-45 is the most ambitious and detailed computer wargame on the Western Front of World War II ever made. Starting with the Summer 1943 invasions of Sicily and Italy and proceeding through the invasions of France and the drive into Germany, War in the West brings you all the Allied campaigns in Western Europe and the capability to re-fight the Western Front according to your plan.

Moderators: Joel Billings, RedLancer

Post Reply
User avatar
MrBlizzard
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:34 pm
Location: Italy

folgore vs beaufighterVIC

Post by MrBlizzard »

Hi all,
playing torch to tunisia 43-45 as axis, last beta.
My opponent has been flying naval interdiction in the Tunis gulf for some turns with unescorted beaufighters and beauforts based in malta.
So I issued an air directive of air superiority with my C202folgore based near Tunis.
The results were quite nasty for me.
The C202s managed to intercept 5 different days the enemy flight with 12 planes against 10 from higher altitude
but the only result was a folgore downed.
This is one of the encounters
On chart folgore is the only italian good plane and quite superior to beaufighters and beauforts.
What am I missing? [&:]



Image
Attachments
beaufighte..olgore2.jpg
beaufighte..olgore2.jpg (52.46 KiB) Viewed 370 times
Blizzard
User avatar
MrBlizzard
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:34 pm
Location: Italy

RE: folgore vs beaufighterVIC

Post by MrBlizzard »

Also the Folgore italian pilots are quite good being in the 80 exp (the average italian fighter pilots are around 60...)
These are the 2 planes stats

Thanks for any explanation! [:)]

Image
Attachments
beaufighte..folgore.jpg
beaufighte..folgore.jpg (80.26 KiB) Viewed 370 times
Blizzard
User avatar
xhoel
Posts: 3339
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:46 pm
Location: Germany

RE: folgore vs beaufighterVIC

Post by xhoel »

I think because the bombers were flying so low the interception didn't go as planned. When there is a big altitude difference between the opponents there is a chance that the fighters will completely miss the bombers (eg they won't intercept/or will intercept too late to do any real damage). At least that's how I know it works. Try setting the altitude lower next time (around 7-8k)
AAR WITW: Gotterdammerung 43-45
tm.asp?m=4490035
AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
tm.asp?m=4488465
WitE 2 Tester and Test Coordinator
User avatar
MrBlizzard
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:34 pm
Location: Italy

RE: folgore vs beaufighterVIC

Post by MrBlizzard »

Yeah thanks this could solve the problem of missed interception [:)]
I just wonder if I will not have 10 c202folgore downed as result [:D]
Blizzard
User avatar
xhoel
Posts: 3339
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:46 pm
Location: Germany

RE: folgore vs beaufighterVIC

Post by xhoel »

Shouldn't happen as from what I can see that air group is a high exp one. I'd like to know if the tactic works though, would you be so kind as to PM me when/if you try it?

Cheers,
Xhoel
AAR WITW: Gotterdammerung 43-45
tm.asp?m=4490035
AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
tm.asp?m=4488465
WitE 2 Tester and Test Coordinator
User avatar
MrBlizzard
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:34 pm
Location: Italy

RE: folgore vs beaufighterVIC

Post by MrBlizzard »

Oh expereince wasn't so high in reality, I checked and it was only around 60, maybe it's shown 80 in the report just for the FOW...
Some bf-109s in auto CAP managed to intercept the beaufighters at around 8000 feet and made a slaughter of them.
Now I couldn't change the c202s air directive this turn, because I already was in the ground phase so I canceled it.
let see if the c202 can intercept something in auto CAP mission
Blizzard
User avatar
xhoel
Posts: 3339
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:46 pm
Location: Germany

RE: folgore vs beaufighterVIC

Post by xhoel »

So we can conclude that the altitude was the problem. Thanks for sharing the info!
AAR WITW: Gotterdammerung 43-45
tm.asp?m=4490035
AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
tm.asp?m=4488465
WitE 2 Tester and Test Coordinator
User avatar
MrBlizzard
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:34 pm
Location: Italy

RE: folgore vs beaufighterVIC

Post by MrBlizzard »

Still no joy with folgore planes [:(]

the problem seems to be the plane itself not the altitude that I changed and lowered
they don't get kills even in very easy situations
look here, 24 folgore in air superiority intercept 12 hudson and 8 catalina 1 hex from Tunis.
much lower and slower enemy unescorted planes, it seems a very easy prey
but... no enemy planes are downed, just some holes and a light damage is done
it seems like Folgore hasn't any punch, just a peashooter

Any idea? [&:]

Image
Attachments
witwstill..folgore.jpg
witwstill..folgore.jpg (54.22 KiB) Viewed 370 times
Blizzard
Rusty1961
Posts: 1239
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:18 am

RE: folgore vs beaufighterVIC

Post by Rusty1961 »

Perhaps the fact it only has two HMGs and two LMGs is why they don't shoot down planes?
God made man, but Sam Colt made them equal.
User avatar
MrBlizzard
Posts: 636
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:34 pm
Location: Italy

RE: folgore vs beaufighterVIC

Post by MrBlizzard »

Yes you're right this could be a problem, they are undergunned expecially in comparison to allied fighters;
but bf-109 have one 20mm cannon and 2 light mg (so not a big difference) and have destroyed hundreds of planes in this match.
I suspect it's more related to low experience italian pilots.
In the other scenario I played, "battleground italy 43-45", RSI received few squadrons with very skilled pilots that got good results with italian planes.
(one could wonder where they did come from, provided that in this scenery italian pilots aren't able to fly at all [:D], same thing for US pilots)
I will run some test to understand better this issue [:)]

Blizzard
User avatar
LiquidSky
Posts: 2835
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:28 am

RE: folgore vs beaufighterVIC

Post by LiquidSky »



Having done a lot of 'tests' with something I used to call 'Friday Night Flights' where I would pit different (or the same!) planes against each other I discovered a few things.

Experience is by far the most important factor. Some Luftwaffe pilot made a quote about the Me262 not being a war winning plane when piloted by a 17 year old that pretty much sums that up.

The next most important is altitude. (and speed) Every plane is rated for speed at different altitudes..you can go into the editor and see the graph. You want your planes to fight at their optimum altitude. I usually just look in wiki to figure it out.

Lastly..the plane. Every plane has guns..and those guns cause damage. Every plane has hitpoints and can take damage. Like somebody noticed...a couple machineguns aren't going to do a lot of damage compared to a pair of 20mm cannon. Some planes have loadouts which change the guns...The BF109G-6 can mount extra cannons for example.

It takes a wild swing in plane quality to notice a difference. Essentially Hurricanes, BF09's....are the same plane. Any differences will be overshadowed by altitude and quality.

Finally...randomness. You can fight the same 100 planes vrs 100 planes 10 times and get a different result each time...although the results will always favour the side with the most experienced pilots fighting at the correct altitude with the most guns.
“My logisticians are a humorless lot … they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.” – Alexander the Great
Post Reply

Return to “Gary Grigsby's War in the West”