Nine years and going strong

[rustysi]

when these were heatedly (and pointlessly) debated.

[:)]

[Bulldog61]

WITP II sounds like a winner!

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy



Yes and no. Ludovic Kennedy (who was there) had the best take on it - Bismarck was heavily afire inside and out and the crew were abandoning her. She was going to sink; the scuttling by the German crew just hastened the inevitable.

Would it be correct to say that Bismarck was both scuttled and sunk?

Well, if you're following the 'scuttled' camp, then you'd have to argue that [I'm not making this up] since the ship was ultimately scuttled, the British Royal Navy deserves no credit for the ultimate demise of the ship. I guess rendering an enemy combatant hors de combat means that one should hang their head in shame for an 'incomplete job'. [8|]

Yes, I've read that multiple times. And I struggle to avoid calling it stupid.

Although I also have some issues with the claim that the German crew didn't scuttle the ship, because she was sunk by the British.

[dave sindel]

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

ORIGINAL: Zorch

"Everything I need to know about life I learned playing WitP:AE".

[8D]

Feel free to add / correct / amend as you see fit.


1. Strategy eventually loses to logistics – period

2. Quantity is quality – if the quantity is large enough

3. Strategy only works if logistics support it; and any good strategy must have allowances for unexpected results and logistics to absorb unexpected results.

4. Don’t keep repeating the same mistake again and again. If your strategy didn’t work the first time, change strategy

5. If you are going to participate/provoke a fight – bring enough to win

6. Shock(ing) attacks only work if the odds are (3:1 or better) in your favor – so you better be damn confident you did the math right before you shock attack.

7. It’s not enough to simply win the fight – you need to support the victory with long enduring support (and supply); otherwise your victory is hollow

8. No asset is worthless. Any asset can be used as improvisation to hold the line. Those who abandon / dismiss assets as inadequate to the challenge – will lose the challenge no matter what assets they have

Been out of town for a week, and just catching up on the forum. I really liked these points !

[Macclan5]

ORIGINAL: dave sindel
Been out of town for a week, and just catching up on the forum. I really liked these points !

Hand in hand with my old "You know you play too much WITP - AE if:

(again please feel free to add / change / deduct as you see fit) [8D]

--

1) You ponder the name of Copenhagen Maru and wonder what the Bi-Lateral trade flows were between Japan and Denmark in 1939

2) You ponder "who the h-e-double hockey sticks" was Samuel Johnson and look him up in Wikipedia

3) You are prepared to argue forcibly about the merits of the P40K with random WW2 buffs and their 'uniformed' comments.

3b) You appreciate the nuance of Russian Language designations for "ground attack vs air attack" in regards to the P39

4) You are Geographically well versed with the names of random Islands and Atoll in the Pacific that since 1945 have new names.... Micronesia ...ohhh you mean.... <insert here>

5) You dream at nights of reconstituting divisions... and all their ancillary components including Tank Battalions and Defense Battalions for historical neatness.

6) You consider the movie Midway to be pure drivel - and Tora Tora Tora to be only marginal

7) You cannot name movies about the Pacific War starring Ben Affleck without throwing up in your mouth a little

8) You have contemplated the Outlet of the Columbia River to the Pacific Ocean and (potentially argued) whether a landing was possible in the first instance.

9) Monty's mantra of 'tidying up the battlefield' deeply resonates within your inner OCD persona even if it was inappropriate for the Battle of the Bulge...

10) Your subscription to You Tube channels contains all episodes of : i) WW2 In Color HD ii) Battlefield - the old PBS series iii) Lost Evidence - the Pacific War and iv) insert others...

11) You are saving your last Christmas gift card to Amazon / Chapters / Bookstore for Ian Tolls new book....

etc

etc

[btd64]

If you go to bed dreaming about your next operation.

If you look at your checking account and sub Consciously try to figure out how to produce supplies with so little....GP

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

7) You cannot name movies about the Pacific War starring Ben Affleck without throwing up in your mouth a little

warspite1

Agreed. Oh except that one from the early 2000's.. that was jolly good..what was it called again? Oh yes, Pearl Harbor.

[btd64]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

7) You cannot name movies about the Pacific War starring Ben Affleck without throwing up in your mouth a little

warspite1

Agreed. Oh except that one from the early 2000's.. that was jolly good..what was it called again? Oh yes, Pearl Harbor.

....GP

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: btd64

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

7) You cannot name movies about the Pacific War starring Ben Affleck without throwing up in your mouth a little

warspite1

Agreed. Oh except that one from the early 2000's.. that was jolly good..what was it called again? Oh yes, Pearl Harbor.

....GP

btd64, go wash your mouth out with soap.

[btd64]

ORIGINAL: Zorch

ORIGINAL: btd64

ORIGINAL: warspite1


warspite1

Agreed. Oh except that one from the early 2000's.. that was jolly good..what was it called again? Oh yes, Pearl Harbor.

....GP

btd64, go wash your mouth out with soap.

Nah, Bourbon is better....GP

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

....But in actuality my wargaming days started with Milton Bradley games my dad got me for Christmas as a kid such as Hit the Beach.

I was going to say I started with Avalon Hill's Jutland, which I bought about 1970...
but thinking clearer - it was actually Milton Bradley's American Heritage series, that Hansbolter mentioned, back in the mid 1960's - that got me started on military board games - to computer games - to here.

[asurob]

I have been playing this since it was called "Uncommon Valor"....many many hours of watching my carriers sink.

[BillBrown]

I bought Pacific War by SSI, I still have the manual for it. Looked for some help on the new internet and found
Matrix Games. They had an updated version and we could do some mods on it. Played a few PBEM games and then
moved on to UV, WitP, and then WitP:AE. It has been fun.

[adarbrauner]

ORIGINAL: Anachro

I played and loved Hearts of Iron 3, but "wanted something more in-depth." Eventually, I somehow or another heard references to Grigsby games and "grognards" elsewhere on the internet and, disheartened by Paradox's preview of Hearts of Iron 4 and being a big fan of the Pacific Theater, I made the plunge and bought WitP after being initially turned off by the price. Took me a while to learn the game and understand it (even if my understanding is still limited). Haven't looked back since. Nothing else compares.

Carbon copy of my story......

[adarbrauner]

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

ORIGINAL: dave sindel
Been out of town for a week, and just catching up on the forum. I really liked these points !

Hand in hand with my old "You know you play too much WITP - AE if:

(again please feel free to add / change / deduct as you see fit) [8D]

--

1) You ponder the name of Copenhagen Maru and wonder what the Bi-Lateral trade flows were between Japan and Denmark in 1939

2) You ponder "who the h-e-double hockey sticks" was Samuel Johnson and look him up in Wikipedia

3) You are prepared to argue forcibly about the merits of the P40K with random WW2 buffs and their 'uniformed' comments.

3b) You appreciate the nuance of Russian Language designations for "ground attack vs air attack" in regards to the P39

4) You are Geographically well versed with the names of random Islands and Atoll in the Pacific that since 1945 have new names.... Micronesia ...ohhh you mean.... <insert here>

5) You dream at nights of reconstituting divisions... and all their ancillary components including Tank Battalions and Defense Battalions for historical neatness.

6) You consider the movie Midway to be pure drivel - and Tora Tora Tora to be only marginal

7) You cannot name movies about the Pacific War starring Ben Affleck without throwing up in your mouth a little

8) You have contemplated the Outlet of the Columbia River to the Pacific Ocean and (potentially argued) whether a landing was possible in the first instance.

9) Monty's mantra of 'tidying up the battlefield' deeply resonates within your inner OCD persona even if it was inappropriate for the Battle of the Bulge...

10) Your subscription to You Tube channels contains all episodes of : i) WW2 In Color HD ii) Battlefield - the old PBS series iii) Lost Evidence - the Pacific War and iv) insert others...

11) You are saving your last Christmas gift card to Amazon / Chapters / Bookstore for Ian Tolls new book....

etc

etc

You made me laugh and smile...

[Rising-Sun]

Interesting, I have been working on WitP:AE full campaign (scenario #1) mod here. Since I abandoned the old WitP due to editor doesn't cover things I needed. Now I never gotten far playing in that scenario and it feel like it need some improvements. There nothing we can do about the AIs since it is hardcoded, but listen some of you guys that mention that Japan AI wasn't doing well. What version was that? Also noticed there were tons of reserved resources and oils, but that wont last long. Noticed that there are a lot of resources that are over the top, not really as in history where they should be or too much.

What I did here is reduce the resources input for light industries to 10 instead of 15 and for heavy industries will use only 1 fuel instead of two. On the Japan side, they mostly use coals for burning energy.

So I did so much trying to improve this full campaign, still a long way to go until I am finish with it. The interesting parts I manage to fix Force Z that will arrive in the combat zone by the 10th of December. There a good chance for Prince of Wales and Repluse see some actions before something bad happen.

On the Allied side would have to work with their problems too, transporting their goods as well resources. At the beginning, the USA didn't have full capacity of their industries might. It will take time to build up, such as repair, etc. Even add new base as Midwestern USA that will cover Oklahoma and Texas too. While USA is growing strong in the industry sectors and Japan will starts to decline due to lack of resources that been hampered by submarines.

Edited...
I need to make a topic under custom scenario about this.

[Sardaukar]

Played PacWar, then to WitP (didn't have change to get UV) and then WitP-AE. Long road indeed.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Rising-Sun

Interesting, I have been working on WitP:AE full campaign (scenario #1) mod here. Since I abandoned the old WitP due to editor doesn't cover things I needed. Now I never gotten far playing in that scenario and it feel like it need some improvements. There nothing we can do about the AIs since it is hardcoded, but listen some of you guys that mention that Japan AI wasn't doing well. What version was that? Also noticed there were tons of reserved resources and oils, but that wont last long. Noticed that there are a lot of resources that are over the top, not really as in history where they should be or too much.

What I did here is reduce the resources input for light industries to 10 instead of 15 and for heavy industries will use only 1 fuel instead of two. On the Japan side, they mostly use coals for burning energy.

So I did so much trying to improve this full campaign, still a long way to go until I am finish with it. The interesting parts I manage to fix Force Z that will arrive in the combat zone by the 10th of December. There a good chance for Prince of Wales and Repluse see some actions before something bad happen.

On the Allied side would have to work with their problems too, transporting their goods as well resources. At the beginning, the USA didn't have full capacity of their industries might. It will take time to build up, such as repair, etc. Even add new base as Midwestern USA that will cover Oklahoma and Texas too. While USA is growing strong in the industry sectors and Japan will starts to decline due to lack of resources that been hampered by submarines.

Edited...
I need to make a topic under custom scenario about this.

Yes, the people in the mods forum will give the best answers to this but I can answer the question of the AI deficiency in the Stock game scenarios:
- the game does not have a true AI with reactive routines to respond appropriately to enemy moves. It has a game engine that carries out the orders it has and calculates results (with lots of randoms)
- the "computer enemy" operates off scripts that tell it what targets to take, and sets some date parameters for when to give up on taking them. There is also a bit of raiding script, which does not go after specific targets but sends TFs meandering into likely shipping lanes looking for convoys.
- the computer enemy must grab whatever ships are available at the time it has to execute a script to carry out a new attack on a target, so the mix of ships in a TF is often not ideal, and often the covering forces are usually totally inadequate to the threat.
- if the computer's forces fail to take the target it will keep trying until the expiry date on that script. A human player can concentrate his forces knowing the AI will send in ships piecemeal to their doom.
- the scripts do not have an adequate resupply algorithm so the islands it conquers often run out of supply and are too easy for the player to retake. The Ironman scenarios address this by giving the LCUs a daily supply amount without any logistic pipeline to feed them.

Good luck with trying to design a more challenging scenario. Your ideas about changing industrial inputs are interesting. You could also consider giving each base a small daily supply to reflect food grown on the land or harvested from the sea.

[rustysi]

What I did here is reduce the resources input for light industries to 10 instead of 15 and for heavy industries will use only 1 fuel instead of two.

The only thing this is going to accomplish is to throw the whole mechanism out of wack. Sorry.

[madflava13]

I started out with PacWar way back in the day. Then I subbed these forums when I learned about UV, and jumped on that as soon as it came out. WiTP, then WiTP-AE afterwards. I've detoured off onto other games (CMANO, Eve Online, Railroad Tycoon) but I always find my way back here!