Having Adolf as a Fuhrer should include severe penalties for Germany

[Sugar]

Ah I see. You could choose the option to play without any diplo, but you prefer to play only without that part you don`t like.

[Dmondragon75]

No, but by the part which is historicaly realistic

[Dorky8]

Hitler declared war on the US, they were allied with Japan. Why this isn't represented in the game I don't know. The whole major country diplomacy is a huge flaw in the game. I thought it was going to be changed.

[Schokolokos]

Just add a new script: USA leading towards Allies 5-8% each turn after the date of 11 December 1941.

but many players here are crying too much, not even trying to counter Diplo.

[BPINisBACK]

Maybe i am wrong... but sometime it seems that Sugar is a problem and not only the best player!!!
[:D][:D][:D]
Sugar doesn't cheat, he plays in a way that i don't like (i am more "chaotic") but... he is fair.
Everyone could try this tactics they are well known... But i am pretty sure that any of us will do it as good as he does.
If axis spend MPP on USA they are not building a big army for Russia... Nothing is free.
He also win with allies. What's the problem?
In a game there are "always" a bunch of people who master the game... the rest of us... play in a separate league... Just enjoy the game, guys!!

[Dmondragon75]

This isnt post about Sugar or a game against him, he is best by mile, doesnt chear and is a fair player, as U wrote well.
This is post about game mechanics which might be changed due to the historical circumstances.
If one is leading axis and can count on genius of Manstein or Rommel, one should also count on Hitlers not so logical moves, as was declaration of the war against USA. There was nothing personal in my messages, just an idea how to make game historicaly more accurate and enjoyable

[Sugar]

Hitler`s decision to attack the SU is well represented in the game, and is also considering the Nazi ideology. If I had to be a Nazi to play this game, I wouldn`t play, but after some prerequisites everybody`s free to lead on his own.

Uber-Diplo is a disadvantage for the Allies in this particular case (and because of the many complaints I recommended to neglect it during tourney), but it's not gamebreaking, and the final goal must always be a well balanced game.

[hellraiser1973]

The eternal issue of historical accuracy modeled into a computer game ... I have yet to see one that perfectly fits the bill.
Historical accuracy is a product of multiple factors - the conditions and limitations at the time (economical, military, diplomatic, etc) as well as certain decisions made at the time (for some decisions the results appeared clear years after ppl have taken them). The main issue ppl who advocate historical accuracy have, is PERCEIVED limitations. Germany shouldn't have done whatever action because, NOW, we know it was impossible at that time. Hindsight is 20/20 they say But was it so clear back in the 40's ? I very much doubt it.
The SC series is a strategy series set in 39-45. It attempts to reasonably reflect a historical situation (as a starting point at least) but it also attempts to have a certain balance thrown into it because otherwise who would play Axis anyway? A game should have as close to 50-50% chances to be won by either side, else the game will lose appeal to ppl playing the historical losing side, right? This design constraint will surely lead to "ahistorical" strategies, orders of battle, etc to keep the game playable and enjoyable.

Reading these forums i came across a funny strategy of taking Algeria with 9 airfleets or so (Sugar patented it I believe) in order to trigger DE603 for the joining of Spain. Now, in real life, could Germany have possibly deployed 1500 air units in North Africa? Most probably not. Enter Sugar "the exploiter" who applies an unrealistic strategy to force an equally unrealistic DE603 scripted into the game. Again in real life, do you think that Franco would have cared much if a lousy ass british corps was parked in Casablanca opposing a sizable german army group poised to take all algeria/morocco? In SC3 he doesnt do DE603 untill the remote Casablanca allied unit is wiped out, right? Now try, within the game mechanics, to go by foot there, having army sized units and even a panzegruppe - it will take you forever not to mention allies can place the cheapest corps sized unit in places surrounding casablanca and , voila, have fun for the next 5 months trying to take casablanca at a supply level of 2 or so...So throwing 5 , zero tech corps without HQ support is historical but 9 axis airfleet is not

[nnason]

Good discussion here.
IN the ELO tourney should we:
1. Consider limiting Uber diplo? If so how? Like making it 200 or 225 points per.
2. Consider limiting DE603? If so how? Like requiring 1000 or 1200 points perhaps over a longer period.


THOUGHTS?

PS: Note of caution, once USA with its 7% diplo/chip joins, the diplo advantage swings significantly towards the Allies.

[Dorky8]

I don't care if someone wants to play uber-diplo but its not something I'm interested in. Having the ABILITY to drive Russia military spending to 0 or keeping the US out of the war until '43 makes no sense to me ( I know there are strategies to stop it).

Maybe they could create a Major Country Diplomacy Box to check like weather at the start of the game. Not sure how complicated that would be.

[nnason]

Sugar,
I completely agree the most important point is a balanced "game." In that light with no changes to the current rules, if you played yourself using your Axis and Allied strategies who would win "Axis Sugar" or "Allied Sugar" or would the game end in a draw?

[Sugar]

I'd rather wait for the outcomes of my games against Fafnir, an opponent from elder Battlefront days I never was able to beat iirc.

I fear there's a new sheriff in town, and I'm trusting his judgement more than my own. [:D]

[Dorky8]

ORIGINAL: Sugar

I'd rather wait for the outcomes of my games against Fafnir, an opponent from elder Battlefront days I never was able to beat iirc.

I fear there's a new sheriff in town, and I'm trusting his judgement more than my own. [:D]

If you guys could AAR the game it would be greatly appreciated [&o]

[nnason]

I will not give away any of Fafnir's secrets but I am not doing well as the Allies. It is May 41. We will see after the start of Barbarossa how I am doing.

[Sugar]

If you guys could AAR the game it would be greatly appreciated

Sorry, no more cheap infos. Going gets tough. [8D]

[Dorky8]

Not really that important, enjoy the game

it is a game you know

[Dmondragon75]

Its just a game, still-all of us like to win hehe

[Goodmongo]

You guys should go check out the Gallup polls from that time period. What most people believe just isn't true. By fall of 1941 the US populations was more than willing to enter into a war against Germany. Events like the Reuben James was causing a massive shift. PH was just the icing on the cake. But this was due to what FDR was doing from 1938-1941. The game on the other hand can be viewed as giving money to the republicans to try and win in 1940 elections or at least to Lindbergh to persuade US citizens from getting involved.

So what happened in real life would be the equivalent of UK investing in chits to influence the US and Germany not doing it. Bottom line is letting Germany have the option would not break the unbelievable threshold. Chirchill would need to counter and help FDR to offset it.

As for Hitler DOW'ing the US that makes perfect sense. The US was going to DOW Germany anyway but most likely AFTER sending some massive aid to preposition the equipment. This allowed Germany to strike at oil, supplies and equipment while their focus was in the Pacific. Bottom line is Hitler didn't have a choice. Wait a few months for US to do it when they were ready or to strike first.

[Dorky8]

Everything the Nazi's represented was nauseating to most Americans. The chance of Hitler influencing American diplomacy in mid 1941 is zero.

[Ktonos]

Its one thing to influence Americans to be friendly to Nazism and another entirely to not go to war.