The Armchair General's Tale -IJ SURRENDERS- (dontra85 (IJ) vs modrow (A)) - no dontra85, please

[modrow]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Wow - nice ambush and a heavy blow for your opponent! Was NY59Giants still playing the IJ side?
May 30/42 is pretty late for Japan to be attacking Ambon, probably because of the troops and time devoted to that invasion of the NW USA early in the game. Still, it should have had coverage by BBs and Carriers.

Thanks for bringing the action to us in your AAR![:)]

Frankly, in terms of a "normal" game the blow was not even that bad IMO. But I guess it killed his timetable for good.

I took over the Allied side from NY59Giants. IJ was always Dontra85 from the beginning.

Below is the last VP screen from IJ side (Dontra85 sent me his password when resigning)

Hartwig

[BBfanboy]

Perhaps if he takes a few days to get over the shock of that disaster he might be persuaded to continue. He did destroy a lot of aircraft factories in that US invasion, which should help in the long run.

[GetAssista]

Congratulations on the victory! Well deserved!

I think Japan was overly emotional over that Ambon setback. But then, more losses of greater caliber would have come soon

[Olorin]

Congratulations!
A bit premature and an overreaction to surrender over a failed Ambon invasion, imho.

[modrow]

BBfanboy, GetAssista, Olorin

Thank you for the congratulations, even though I am not sure how deserved they really are. Plus I sort of miss the game, it was very interesting.

Dontra alway seemed quite rational to me, I do not think this is an emotional reaction. I think this was a well planned project game, he had something like a script/timetable what to do with his limited scenario 1 assets to get the points he needed for a 43 autovictory.

I looked into his side after he had sent me his password and especially his R&D setup (or lack thereof) shows clearly to me that this game was in fact not intended to enter the phase when the losses would become relevant.

One thing that became clear to me watching the invasions my opponent was conducting while I was in command was that he always brought a lot, and he used a lot of shipping to do so, thus being able to unload relatively quickly even after the invasion bonus was over. Remember that he did Ceylon a relatively short time before Koumac/La Foa and then went on almost immediately with Namlea/Ambon. That is why he did not really have any heavy assets left to cover Ambon invasion.

What I think is that his timetable required running three operations at a time (he evacuated Ceylon and was moving back the assets he had used there) and he realized after Ambon that his assets were only sufficient (any more) for two, so he cancelled. Which is a pity, but still fine with me.

Hartwig

[Bif1961]

Sorry to see it end so soon. If you don't look at he setup and the R&D, maybe someone would take over.

[Alfred]

Normally one could approach Lowpe to see if he would be interested in taking over the Japanese side.  In this instance I strongly suspect he would not be interested as the Japanese position is far too strong with real prospects for achieving an auto victory in 1944, if not earlier.  The game would therefore not present much of a challenge to him.[;)]
 
Alfred

[modrow]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Normally one could approach Lowpe to see if he would be interested in taking over the Japanese side.  In this instance I strongly suspect he would not be interested as the Japanese position is far too strong with real prospects for achieving an auto victory in 1944, if not earlier.  The game would therefore not present much of a challenge to him.[;)]

Alfred

Well, he could always activate the Soviets to make things a bit more demanding for him [;)].

Honestly though, I have looked too far into the IJ side to do this (which is why I also think the situation may be more demanding than what is seen from the outside). If this setup (i.e. the Portland gambit and its consequences, not the specific matchup you mention) is to be explored further, IMO one would have to go back to the time when NY59giants took over to give IJ a fair/new chance to set up the economy differently. Not sure whether this is possible.

Hartwig

[Canoerebel]

Lowpe accidentally triggers Russian activation, doesn't ask for a mulligan, accepts the consequences, and plays on and on and on.

Your opponent comes up with a novel strategy that will be fun but then quits when he doesn't like how it turned out? Yikes.

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Lowpe accidentally triggers Russian activation, doesn't ask for a mulligan, accepts the consequences, and plays on and on and on.

Your opponent comes up with a novel strategy that will be fun but then quits when he doesn't like how it turned out? Yikes.

This is a very polite way of stating what I really think of modrow's opponent. Suffice to say that I have zero respect for him and if I really stated what I thought of him I would probably be banned from the forum. I certainly intend to forewarn any future opponents in the Opponents Wanted subforum that this particularly individual is only interested in achieving cheap victories to satisfy his ego and will immediately bail out once it is obvious he can't bully his Allied opponent.

I have no issue with any Japanese player attempting to knock out early any specific West Coast industrial base. After all it is the responsibility of the Allied player to protect their West Coast industrial bases. However like all strategies, whether employed by the Japanese or Allied player, there is always attached a cost. It is not worth playing in a PBEM any player who is not prepared to pay the cost if their opponent outplays them. It is only an immature Japanese player who believes they alone are entitled to benefit from the asymmetrical elements which greatly favour all Japanese players on 7 December 1941.

It is these immature players who provide solid credence to the oft repeated criticism made by Hans Bolter of Japanese PBEM players who are only interested in winning, if necessary by cheating. Based on this performance, no Allied player should ever, under any circumstances, play this particular Japanese player in a PBEM. Doing so would merely confirm the Allied player to be a patzer.

Alfred

[modrow]

Well, I guess I am more lenient here. Maybe that's just because I qualify as a patzer myself. Maybe it's because of other reasons as well. Old age ? Don't think so. But this:

First of all, bear in mind that in this game the ratio of Allied quitters to IJ quitters is 2:1. 2 Allied players quit on him, so he can quit on me if he likes. I think I read somewhere in the context of the first quit that he offered to play on with swapped roles when the first opponent wanted to quit, but I may be wrong here.

Next, part of the reason is that I was having fun playing this game, so all is well for me. I personally do not feel (like one frequently hears) like I made an investment that I expect to pay off later and am now deprived of my dividend. Possibly this is because "winning" in the classical sense is not what I am most interested in. Doing what I can do with inferior assets (or assets which are percieved to be inferior because the proper use/approach has not been discovered), trying to deal with difficult situations, trying to make the opponent deviate from his plans, all of these are fascinating tasks IMO. And did I not do better than all those professional generals in real life by achieving IJ surrender in Mid 42? That's a real boost to my armchair general ego [:)].

Of course, warning Allied players who really like "winning" themselves and therefore feel different in this respect before they start a PBEM game is appropriate in this case.

Last not least, I do not think that we would have learned more about the feasibility of the WC invasion strategy in this game, because potentially it may not represent adequately what IJ can achieve if played in a more optimized/experienced way. My personal view is that my opponent had strategic visions that went beyond his technical AE skills.That's why I said if one wants to explore this, one has to go back to the turn after Portland has been taken.

Just the views of a potential patzer.[;)]

Hartwig

edited to add text in italics

[GetAssista]

This game, being both long-term and asymmetric, is prone to quitting. And early Japanese quitting is frowned upon here since like forever because there were and are a lot of occurences of relatively new Japan players having their rampage fun in the beginning and then leaving when the serious fighting starts around mid 42 and Allied player at last starts having his own victories.

I think all serious players here blacklist this kind of quitters automatically if seen in any game or AAR. Investment into starting any GC game is huge so this is a reasonable risk-cutting measure.

[Bif1961]

I have been playing against the same opponent now for several years we have changes sides a few times so you get challenged with different overcome. We have not quit in 42 yet and have made it to late 1944 as our longest game. I wish we would play longer but if you respect your opponent and but mutual agreement it ends then just switch sides and play again. I hope you find an opponent that shares your same views.

[Ketza]

Hartwig my old friend! Good to see your still at it!

[modrow]

ORIGINAL: Ketza

Hartwig my old friend! Good to see your still at it!

Will,

nice to see you around. Are you transferring back to the Pacific theatre (WitP) after your stint at the Eastern Front (WitE), or just getting some R&R at Hawaii before you return to the blizzards of the harsh Russian winter?

We seem to have a few people returning these days. Mogami is back as well.

Neither WitE nor WitW really got me hooked, so I stayed with this one. Still the best game for me.

Take care

Hartwig