Operational Art of War

Brigz · Post by **Brigz** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 4:26 am

This thread made me get out and dust off my TOAW games and reload them on my computer.
I own both the original Operational Art of War I and II (bought them when they first came out) and have them upgraded to the most current Talonsoft patches. What I could never figure out is why all the different versions. What do you get with TOAW Elite that you don't get with the original game? Are the programs for Vol I and Vol II the same as the ones in A Century of Warfare? Elite and Century of Warfare run on all platforms?

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:15 am

Me I have the Elite Edition version of both Volume 1 and 2.

Volume 1 was WW2 and Volume 2 was modern essentially as I understand it.

I can only think that each new version is exploiting updates tweaks and the need essentially to provide new product when it sold out.
That it regularly sold out either indicates Talonsoft was either not making enough supply for the demand, or the game has enough demand it doesn't take long to move the stock.

I know they have made packages that incorporated new product ie the Kosovo one.

I bought Century of War primarily to get the advantage of a product able to play user friendly with XP (which didn't exist when I bought Volume 1 originally).

As for exactly what the heck is different from Elite Edition Volume 1 and the material bundled with CoW, I have no definitive idea.
They have not reinvented Volume 1 so much as merely re package it more or less.

I do know that game saves etc from earlier versions have trouble with later versions.

The only trouble I have ever really experienced with Volume 1 was a patch that was required merely to get it to install. And that was basically it, if you use the patch you have no trouble.

For those able to use Win 98SE and only wanting a WW2 experience, you get what you need out of the Volume 1 product more or less.

Those needing more input can likely get lots of assistance over at Warfare HQ where there are a lot of fans of the game it should be noted.

http://www.warfarehq.com/forums/index.php?s=

Fallschirmjager · Post by **Fallschirmjager** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:25 am

Elite was the original game and the expansion pack put on the same cd

Brigz · Post by **Brigz** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:07 am

Thanks Les and F'Jager. So I guess the basic programs are the same for all the editions. Like I said I just re installed Opart 1 and 2 and ran the most current update. I downloaded some recent scenarios from the Wargamer page and they run fine so I guess I'm in good shape. Haven't messed around with these in a long time and it's kind of fun getting to learn them again.

Brigz · Post by **Brigz** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 8:00 am

Now I remember why I got a little fed up with all the changes and versions of TOAW I and II. I was just over at Norm's web page and under his TOAW I section he says:

"A substantially improved version of this game, using the TOAW II game engine and significantly expanded equipment database was released as TOAW:Wargame of the Year Edition."

What the heck does this mean? Are some people playing TOAW I with the TOAW II engine and some not? When I upgraded my version of TOAW I to version 1.7 does that upgrade my original game to use the TOAW II engine that was the basis for TOAW I: Wargame of the Year Edition?

So you see, there are three versions of this game out there:
TOAW I (the original game)
TOAW I Wargame of the Year Edition (TOAW I with TOAW II engine)
TOAW A Century of Warfare (both TOAW I and TOAW II in one package and I assume using the TOAW II engine for both.)

I'd like to have the most current updated version of these games but I don't know if I have them already because of the upgrades or do I need to buy new versions.

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 4:29 pm

Dave, the ooooooonly thing that counts is if the game runs, and satisfies.

My first and only ever problem with TOAW 1 Elite Edition was an installation problem. I needed a patch that made it install correctly. From there everything was ok.

After a point, the rest is like Steel Panthers. Sure the latest version I am using with the MC test is the "best version", but it would be folly to say 4.2 was drastically "damaged and unplayable". Same could be said for 5.1 versions through 7.1

You might have a snag if trying to play it online versus an individual not on the same page as you.

You might have trouble if trying to use a user created scenario not made with your version in mind.

But I would not have time to list every game I have that might have trouble with playing another person online, or not be totally in sync with user made scenarios.

The only substantive difference made for Steel Panthers was it was made windows environment friendly in my opinion.
And the only substantive alteration in TOAW (my opinion) was they made the whole sheebang XP capable in the CoW edition.

I would still be using it in 98SE as Elite Edition Vol 1 if they had not made Cow. And I would have no complaints with how it ran (beyond being forced to run 98SE that is).

Knavery2112 · Post by **Knavery2112** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 9:51 pm

So in your opinion Les, would it be more beneficial to buy CoW or install a dual boot of 98/XP? I have ToAW 1 elite and the regular edition of 2. I don't have any x packs beyone that. Does it come with anything else other than a disk?

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:01 pm

Hmm we gotta unify these two threads hehe.

If you have Vol 1 and 2 odds are your correct move is to invest in a new wargame in some respects.

A dual boot is a simple process.

But considering you could buy CoW which really is not so significantly different, or you could buy Korsun Pocket a hot new ticket

And the talk at Wargamer is putting it up for an award. Lots of people are pleased with Korsun at this moment in time. And anyone that will play TOAW is essentially a Korsun type wargamer.

Kung Karl · Post by **Kung Karl** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 2:57 am

Will TOAW run fine on WinME?

Knavery2112 · Post by **Knavery2112** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 3:19 am

Well Les,

I ordered CoW for 39.99 from Talonsoft. I don't want to dink around with installing Win98SE. My time is more valuable to me than to mess with that. Plus Win98 suck duck balls.

Brigz · Post by **Brigz** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:46 am

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
Dave, the ooooooonly thing that counts is if the game runs, and satisfies.

Well, I toooootally disagree with you on this. Isn't the main purpose of upgrading games to make them run better and be more satisfactory? I'd feel pretty unsatisfied playing a game if I knew there was a better version available. You play ASL. So why did you spend all that money on it when the original Squad Leader was fun and satisfying?

Anyway, I think we are approaching this from two different perspectives. My criteria and your criteria for a game are different. You seem to approach games as a game player, while I approach games more as an historian. The more accurate and versitile a game is then the better I'll like it. (Don't get me wrong, I still like simple and fun games but we're talking about TOAW here.) Based on my little bit of research in the past few days and based on some of the things you have said and Norm Koger has written, I've come to the decision that, yes, I do want to buy TOAW: COW. My only question now is, will COW run on Win98se?

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:05 am

Whats ME?

Oh yeah Millenium. That worthless piece of crud that with luck will take a millenum to ever occur again

I like XP, very dumb I don't know squat friendly.

Sure glad I wasn't sucked in by either ME or 2000. Frankly Bill should give any that bought those two, a free copy of the OS of their choice as an apology.

Good choice Knavery.

Hey was that your comment at Battlefront about Warfare HQ membership?

I go there only infrequently, but they are the place to be for Talonsoft games more or less.

Knavery2112 · Post by **Knavery2112** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 7:43 am

Yes that was me inquiring about the membership at WarfareHQ. It seems you need someone to refer you. How ELITE... Anyway.. I've been a member at Battlefront for over a year now and have played CM since it came out. Or.. I'd like to think I have.. haha.. I never get responses there. Seems they are a tight little group.

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:43 pm

Referal Knavery? that's a new one on me, wasn't the case when I signed on. They rebuilt the site the other day though, might have changed.

Want a referral?

Dave, guess I stated that poorly about game running.

With me, the best way to get me mad, is sell me a game that just plain doesn't run, and do it knowingly.
And I can think of games guilty of that sin too.

But TOAW isn't a game that was made this year of last year or the year before of course. And a few designs that were made when it was made, have not always made the move to XP style OS willingly.

But regarding CoW working on 98SE, hmm I would actually be shocked if you could find any software that wouldn't.
The only thing I can say about 98SE in a negative light, is, well, it's 98 SE

If CoW won't run in 98SE I want to know, it will be the first program I myself have encountered that won't.

Knavery2112 · Post by **Knavery2112** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:51 pm

Yeah.. I'd like a referral if you can give me one. That would be great. Could you email me at 'ignusknavery@hotmail.com' with your username there? I would appreciate it! thanks.

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:02 pm

Will do dude, look for it later today (migraine just hit, my brain's OS just crashed hehe).

Brigz · Post by **Brigz** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 12:28 am

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
Dave, guess I stated that poorly about game running.

With me, the best way to get me mad, is sell me a game that just plain doesn't run, and do it knowingly.
And I can think of games guilty of that sin too.

Well I totally agree with that. I've got plenty of games that fall under that catagory. I guess what I was trying to say is that with a game as good as TOAW I want the most up-to-date and current edition as possible. I just couldn't stand playing and plotting moves for hours knowing that there is a "better" version available. Besides, I'm going to have to upgrade the machine and won't be using Win98se forever, so I will want a version of TOAW that will run under whatever version of Windows I eventually end up with when I buy a new computer.

And off topic, you have said many times how much you like Korsun Pocket. Isn't that the same Decisive Battles of WWII engine used by SSG/SSI's earlier Ardennes Offensive? How does it compare to that earlier game?

Kung Karl · Post by **Kung Karl** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 12:38 am

What exactly is the diffrence between the TOAW Volume 1 with patches and TOAW: COW?
Are the diffrence that major? Besides XP compability.

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 5:49 am

Knavery I just looked in on Warfare HQ myself actually.

I am assuming you would have to register much like you would at any normal forum or site.

I went and began the process as if signing up for the first time, but can't seem to see any sign of requirement being a referral though.

If if is of any aid to you though, you can use me to assist. My username at Warfare HQ is LestheSarge9-1f (ain't no spaces in the name there). At one time I was adding letters to distinguish my identity from site to site (actually wish I hadn't now).

Any that know me, generally know me as Les the Sarge 9-1 (in one minor variation or another). The name is a derivative of an ASL counter for those that don't realise it. The Avatar was a hand made creation based off of a British ASL Leader counter.

Let me know if you continue to have trouble signing up there.

Knavery2112 · Post by **Knavery2112** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 9:40 am

Thanks Les,

I went on there and registered with you as a referral. It will not let you register as a new user unless you put a referrer that has an account on the site. It's where you select your username, password and email account. Now off to wargaming.