Connect Four Team Game

[Crackaces]

I think you all have hit the key for a possible Soviet victory. This from a German fanboy perspective. Manpower is at the 5M level, and with a +1 attack I anticipate a good winter offense. So far the Soviets have been staying at the front of the German onslaught. I continue to lurk to get ideas for my Soviet Plays.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: Erzac

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

However, more likely is that the fact that we were running at 300% interception level in our air preferences meant that all our fighters ran out of miles. They encouraged this by running a large number of pointless recon missions that, while they only draw up a few fighters, can still wear down our squadrons when there are hundreds of them. When the Axis ran us out of miles.

The reason your fighters stopped flying wasn't due to any recon maneuvers. Instead, I'm very certain the Red Army had it's required to fly percentage set to 50% at the time. All fighter groups in the area were hammered under 50% strength and thus stopped flying. This in turn allowed the unescorted bombing flights.

And that turn also inspired... this:
Skyfall Ostfront

That is exactly what happened in 2x3 turns 3-14. The only thing recon did was to figure out the furthest the fighters had to fly to get the optimum places to sweep (I.r ground bomb missions that were fighter only)

[Erzac]

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
Half right:

Indeed the fighter intercept percentage doesn't matter, as the percent required to fly overrides everything. Thus any group that drops below the set percentage won't fly no matter what happens.

[thedoctorking]

Looking at the "battles" tab of the commander's report for that turn, looks like you did about 360 recon missions. Here's a map of the places you were curious about:

[thedoctorking]

Of course, one thing that did happen was that a number of those recon missions resulted in air-to-air victories for our boys. That raises their morale and skill level. So it is a trade-off for you. But you did recon a lot of places where there wasn't any real intelligence to be had.

[Erzac]

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

Looking at the "battles" tab of the commander's report for that turn, looks like you did about 360 recon missions. Here's a map of the places you were curious about:

To me that screenshot is a good example of a thorough, but also very proportionate, recon. There's so much more that could be flown if one was so inclined.

[thedoctorking]

We have subsequently set % required to fly to 0.
Unclear if this is harming morale and experience growth of our air units.

[thedoctorking]

ORIGINAL: Erzac

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

Looking at the "battles" tab of the commander's report for that turn, looks like you did about 360 recon missions. Here's a map of the places you were curious about:

To me that screenshot is a good example of a thorough, but also very proportionate, recon. There's so much more that could be flown if one was so inclined.

Middle of Lake Ladoga? North of the Svir in Karelia?
Yaroslavl?

[Erzac]

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
But you did recon a lot of places where there wasn't any real intelligence to be had.

Indeed, and that there is intel as well. I want to have a comprehensive idea of what is happening not just on the frontline and directly behind, but I also want to spot any possible buildups in the rear well in advance.

[Erzac]

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

ORIGINAL: Erzac

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

Looking at the "battles" tab of the commander's report for that turn, looks like you did about 360 recon missions. Here's a map of the places you were curious about:

To me that screenshot is a good example of a thorough, but also very proportionate, recon. There's so much more that could be flown if one was so inclined.

Middle of Lake Ladoga? North of the Svir in Karelia?
Yaroslavl?

The Finnish recon missions were actually escorted with a lot of fighters and were there to enable the Finnish air force to engage, as they don't have any airfields to bomb or sweep. And the places very far in the rear don't have any intercepting fighters anyway, so it really does no "harm", other than providing the intel that there really is nothing there.

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
The Axis team carried out their turn in two days, a record, I believe, for any multi-player game I have been in. At this rate, we will soon catch up with the 2by3+ game! Their enthusiasm for the game makes it a pleasure to play against them.

8MP has had the quickest turns, less than a day for a full four man team. I think one was even in 12 hours.

2by3+ did actually have some quicker turns though when you were there.

I guess it does also show there are quick and slow periods for all games. But let us hope this continues

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
However, more likely is that the fact that we were running at 300% interception level in our air preferences meant that all our fighters ran out of miles. They encouraged this by running a large number of pointless recon missions that, while they only draw up a few fighters, can still wear down our squadrons when there are hundreds of them. When the Axis ran us out of miles, they stopped sending fighters on their later bombing missions.

Exactly the same number of interceptors will fly to intercept recon regardless of the percentage interception level. So being on 300% or 5% will make no difference. That is if they are actually flying. You can see this in battle reports - you can see the same number of fighters intercept recon whatever your interception level.

Spam recon can be effective against a few air groups, or for a small margin against many. The impact it had in this case compared to the other causes was tiny.

Fighters did not stop flying because of using up all the miles. I have been trying to find out for certain but I believe there is no absolute number of miles tracked at all during an opponents turn - the program assumes AI only missions (not manual) never fly too much and so there is no milometer on them during the opposition turn.

Fatigue is also not the issue.

About 99% of the reason for the planes not flying was another incorrect air doctrine setting, as mentioned, relative to the state of your airforce. It was a Soviet decision to keep so much of the air force on the ground. The same thing happened for many turns in the 8MP game and was documented in the AARs. You can also test it yourself. If you set out an airforce in the same configuration and air doctrine settings as you had and then look at the turn from the other side you will find much of the Soviet air force will not fly BEFORE the turn has even begun. And the very few that do have such a small margin before they do not that yes then fighter sweeps and even spam recon can soon stop even them flying.

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
Of course, one thing that did happen was that a number of those recon missions resulted in air-to-air victories for our boys. That raises their morale and skill level. So it is a trade-off for you.

Exactly the point - long term spam recon is a losing proposition - it is only valuable if it gets over a small hurdle for something bigger - like unescorted, unintercepted daylight bombing.

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
But you did recon a lot of places where there wasn't any real intelligence to be had.

I have detailed elsewhere, and for you on discord, the immense amount of information you can pick up from recon. Clearly if you only view it as a means to spot ground units then there was no other real intelligence to be had. I am not air commander here but the screenshot here does look typical if you are trying to keep a turn by turn track of actual units and optimise detection levels for ground interdiction. I also use recon to work out where fighters will and will not intercept and to work out the opponents air doctrine settings. The number of recon missions this takes is multiples of what you need for ground unit spotting. I think actually you have not realised yet all the real intelligence there is to be had and you are missing out on 95% of it! [:)]

[Telemecus]

And to commemorate the turn Goebbels has commissioned another film this time to celebrate our success in the air this turn [:)]

Click here for WitE Skyfall - Ostfront by Erzac and Adele!

[thedoctorking]

Just to be clear, I don't think what you are doing is wrong or illegitimate. The game gives the Axis what I think is an unrealistically high recon capacity, and you are using it within the rules. Please don't take anything I say as an accusation.

What happened on turn 9 was that we got caught with a poor air doctrine setting. We have since changed the settings, and our air war outcomes have been better.

Looking at turn 15, you ran about half as many recon missions as on turn 9. Some of them were intercepted, but by 4-8 fighters instead of 10-15. Changing the % interception setting appears to have had an impact. We shot down 24 of your recon aircraft. You had some bombing missions where your bombers were unescorted and not intercepted. You also had a couple missions where you sent no fighters and you were intercepted, though. It would be nice if the game would tell us whether the attacks took place at night. The impact of our doctrine settings on experience and fatigue seems to have been minimal: we have about 40 regiments with exp>70 and our highest fatigue regiment at the beginning of our turn was 21. Pretty much consistent with other games I've played.

[weinsoldner]

In Finland nothing exiting happened. The Finns continue their advance to the South

[weinsoldner]

Our ground forces in the North gradualy move east towards Narwa. Soviet defense is stiff and we expect the Northern front to become a more static front in the coming turns.

[weinsoldner]

But at least casualities are till in our favor

[weinsoldner]

Could this be the Axis battle plan for this turn, as far as the North/Center is concerned?

[weinsoldner]

North's 4Pz is helping cnetr to move east. 3rd Pz grp continues moving NE in hoping to pocket several Soviet units

[weinsoldner]

Despite Soviet (counter)attacks we still drive towards Moscow

[weinsoldner]

Succes in pocketing Soviet forces near Gomel