That looked decent, Paul. You're into '45 and still not backed into a corner. I think you're fighting well. A Japanese player who fights into '45 against a quality opponent deserves some kind of tenacity medal.
P.S. Where are his Corsairs?
Thanks for the support Dan. It's a PDU off game so he is stuck with Wildcats on his CVEs[:)]
After sending most of the orphan air units from the destroyed CVs to beef up the remaining CVs depleted air groups I retreat the survivors of the KB a hex to the west of Tinian, reload the three large airfields (Guam, Tinian and Saipan) with fresh strike a/c and send a stout SCTF to each base to guard against any bombardments. I also form two TFs headed by a couple of old CLs and DDs to try and pick off a few of his cripples at night. One of these runs into a bombardment TF of 6 old BBs but for some reason avoids combat[&:][:@]. However in the morning for some reason they accept combat with a force containing 4 CAs and the old sisters Tenyru and Tatsuta go down along with their 4 escorting DDs. The other CL TF meets one of his CVE TFs but despite their slow speed they manage to evade combat. This TF is then destroyed by his massed carrier air during the day. In total I lose 5 CL and 13 DD this day.
His mega CV TF remains about 8 hexes from the Marianas and swats away a few small attacks from my LBA, killing about 150 a/c. The only bright spot is one of my LBA groups attacks the damaged CVL Independence, BB New Jersey and 2 escorting DDs and sinks the lot[:)]. In tems of VPs for the day its a draw but of course any draw is pretty much a defeat for the Japs at this stage in the game. What will he do next turn I wonder?
He retreats his CV fleet a few hexes south from the Marianas on the 5th and I take the chance to regroup and load up all the airfields to the max and position the KB one hex off Guam and Tinian. He must have anticipated this and moves a forest of subs to where my CVs end up on the 6th, which is a day of disaster for the IJN. My fleets endure sub attack after attack. Hiryu takes 3 torps and is almost certainly a goner, Zuikaku and Shokaku take one each but both suffer ammo explosions and their flight decks are closed. Another two CVs are attacked but missed. After viewing the replay I had a big wobble and sent Kane a message to say I was thinking of quitting, but after a few hours of reflection I realised I owe it to him to continue considering the time and effort he has put into the game.
He retreats his CV fleet a few hexes south from the Marianas on the 5th and I take the chance to regroup and load up all the airfields to the max and position the KB one hex off Guam and Tinian. He must have anticipated this and moves a forest of subs to where my CVs end up on the 6th, which is a day of disaster for the IJN. My fleets endure sub attack after attack. Hiryu takes 3 torps and is almost certainly a goner, Zuikaku and Shokaku take one each but both suffer ammo explosions and their flight decks are closed. Another two CVs are attacked but missed. After viewing the replay I had a big wobble and sent Kane a message to say I was thinking of quitting, but after a few hours of reflection I realised I owe it to him to continue considering the time and effort he has put into the game.
Don't quit! You're in a fantastic position for Japan going in to 1945. There are plenty of big obstacles for the Allies to yet overcome.
If China gets you down, just remember that the Chinese don't have a navy and they can't threaten the Home Islands except by air.
In retrospect, it may have been better to let the Allies land first before committing the KB to oppose the landing, as having transport ships unloading ties down a lot of Allied resources - the CVE's need to protect the landing, BB's need to bombard and a healthy dose of SCTF's need to protect the lot. It would have also given your land-based air a chance to do some proper attrition of Allied naval strength, but the Marianas is about the worst place on the map to rotate air groups in.
There's a nice chunk gone from the Allied CVE fleet, and if he's withdrawing then you've won a tactical victory here. Replenish the land-based air groups, get your cripples out of the area and batten down for round two. Now that you know where he's going, you can take some serious steps to make the landings harder - mines, subs, midgets ect.
I'd also start bulking up the Bonin's and Minadano/Luzon ASAP, they're the next stop for the Allies!
Paul, I hope you are one of the players who pays attention to points, because that's how the game is designed to be played and that's when it's the must fun. By that measure, a 1:1 day for Japan is usually a victory, since the Allies need 2:1 to win (or more, if they're climbing out of a deficit).
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
The loss of the KB is going to happen sooner or later, and the good news is it's far from the HI and you're taking down fairly equal VPs. He's especially lost a lot of good pilots there, and it's hard to train them up for the USN. The LBA strike you put together gives a lot of hope for the future as well.
I agree with Dan. It's time to really think about using the VP system to stay in it during 45 and keep pushing to get equal ratio losses. Consider also that instead of a strike on day 2 just setting up massive CAP traps and letting the Allies hit where you want them, rather than bring to hit them.
Hang in there, it's a wild ride from here on out! [;)]
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
All valid points/comments everyone. I've never been a fan of the points system, mainly down to the fact some things should be worth a lot more than they actually are and other things worth less.
Well, with half the KB being sunk or badly damaged I have no choice but to retreat north and leave the Marianas to their fate. I manage to get the crippled CVs Shokaku, Zuikaku and Aso back through his forest of subs to the home islands, but they are all out of action for at least 3-4 months each. Hiryu manages to stagger to Ulithi atoll, but with 60 float damage and surrounded by enemy bases it will take a miracle to save her now.
I left a SCTF consisting of BBs Hiei and Haruna plus escorts at Guam to protect the airfiled whilst the fighters based there provided long range CAP for my damaged CVs. They meet a total of 4 separate Allied fast BB TFs and go down fighting:
Night Time Surface Combat, near Guam at 106,95, Range 8,000 Yards
Japanese Ships
BB Haruna, Shell hits 3, on fire
BB Hiei, Shell hits 6, heavy fires
CA Tone
CA Kinugasa, Shell hits 1
DD Akigumo
DD Fujinami
DD Kishinami
DD Hayanami
DD Okinami, Shell hits 1
DD Nowaki, Shell hits 1
DD Michishio, Shell hits 1
Allied Ships
BB North Carolina, Shell hits 19, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
BB Washington, Shell hits 30, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD Barton, Shell hits 5, on fire
DD Woodworth, Shell hits 1
DD Bancroft, Shell hits 2, heavy fires
DD Caldwell, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
Washington takes a torp early in the battle and is then pounded by both my BBs. North Carolina pretty much cripples Hiei but in turn Haruna hits her with at least ten 14" shells and both US BBs are then finished off by more torps. Then the next fight sees them face against another 2 US BBs, 2 Brit BBs and finally a French BB with BCs Renown and Repulse. Obviously already hurting and low and ammo both Hiei and Haruna are finished off. I do however manage to salvage the rest of the TF to fight another day.
Meanwhile on the ground he lands at Guam and it falls after couple of attacks, he is also landed at Rota and Tinian and both will fall in the next day or two. The final totals for the Marianas battle are as follows:
Allied losses: About 15 CVE, 3 fast US BBs, 2 modern CLs, about 10 DDs.
Jap losses: 5 CV (Akagi, Kaga, Soryu, Kasagi, Hiryu), 5 CVL/E, 2 BBs, 5 old CLs and about 15 DD.
Air losses pretty even at about 1200 planes each. So points wise he won by a few hundred I would imagine, but any ratio better than 1:2 for me is quite good at this stage of the game.
Elsewhere in China he takes Hong Kong, nothing really much else to report.
All valid points/comments everyone. I've never been a fan of the points system, mainly down to the fact some things should be worth a lot more than they actually are and other things worth less.
The points system is exquisite. It works and it makes the game challenging and fun for both sides.
As for the imperfections in relative values, it works out in the end. And there's challenge and pleasure in discovering how the points system is weighted and how to then make it all work for you.
In the real war, Guadalcanal, Rabaul, Iwo and Okinawa were worth a lot while Hokkaido, the Kuriles, and Java were worth relatively little. But the players aren't bound by real war values. They chart their own courses, choose their own objectives, and go. It's the same with the points system - it doesn't match the real war perfectly, but it works.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
All valid points/comments everyone. I've never been a fan of the points system, mainly down to the fact some things should be worth a lot more than they actually are and other things worth less.
The points system is exquisite. It works and it makes the game challenging and fun for both sides.
As for the imperfections in relative values, it works out in the end. And there's challenge and pleasure in discovering how the points system is weighted and how to then make it all work for you.
In the real war, Guadalcanal, Rabaul, Iwo and Okinawa were worth a lot while Hokkaido, the Kuriles, and Java were worth relatively little. But the players aren't bound by real war values. They chart their own courses, choose their own objectives, and go. It's the same with the points system - it doesn't match the real war perfectly, but it works.
I just can't get my head around the fact that 15 obsolete a/c are worth as much as one first line destroyer. But, as you say, it's the same for both sides so (in a way) it works out in the end.
To be honest, if you don't embrace the VP system playing as Japan you'll have a bad time.
It turns one-sided engagements into tactical victories for Japan, on the ground, at sea and in the air.
The best example is a single Allied CVE, which are worth around 90 points. That means, as Japan, you can lose 179 VP's (or less) worth of stuff, but come out ahead if you sink the CVE...
Changes the mindset that you need in the late war.
As it should be as the American BBs were more valuable in a point system but since he has far more of them then you do, you have 12 BBs total and he has that many modern one between the 3 modern classes of BBs and 2 modern BCs. That doesn't include the British or his older BBs. So though you came out on top 2 older modernized BCs for two modern BBs, you actually lost in the real world as now you have 2 less of 12 and he has 2 less of maybe 30-40 BBs/BCs.
ORIGINAL: Bif1961
So though you came out on top 2 older modernized BCs for two modern BBs, you actually lost in the real world as now you have 2 less of 12 and he has 2 less of maybe 30-40 BBs/BCs.
It important that this is points game, not an eye-for-eye game.
Striving for making dents in total Allied material would be exactly the wrong approach, because you can just as well surrender on Dec 7, 41 as Japan. But play for the points and you can win
The trade of two older Japanese BCs for two modern American BBs was a good trade in points.
That's my point with the points system (pardon the pun). I got 64 points more for sinking two modern BBs than I lost for losing two old BBs......
To be blunt, that's a great result, and about as good an outcome as you can get for the IJN's capital ships in 1945. It could (and normally is) much worse - from what I've seen it's more common to lose the IJN's battleships to subs, CV strikes or more often in surface combat against hordes of Allied DD's.
You made a good qualitative trade and a good trade on the points front. Going for a quantitative trade as well is just plain greedy!
The Japanese themselves recognized the quantitative deficit even before the war. Captain Hara's book pointed out that each Destroyer had to sink 3 enemy ones and yet survive that battle to break even. The Japanese were fighting to make the cost of reconquest too costly on the Allies and drive them to the negotiation table.
As it should be as the American BBs were more valuable in a point system but since he has far more of them then you do, you have 12 BBs total and he has that many modern one between the 3 modern classes of BBs and 2 modern BCs. That doesn't include the British or his older BBs. So though you came out on top 2 older modernized BCs for two modern BBs, you actually lost in the real world as now you have 2 less of 12 and he has 2 less of maybe 30-40 BBs/BCs.
Yes of course, the point I was making is there should have been an even greater point disparity in my favour considering the age/capability gap of the BBs in question. Obviously I am happy just to come out ahead at all at this stage of the game[:)]
. This TF is then destroyed by his massed carrier air during the day. In total I lose 5 CL and 13 DD this day.
