Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

[Mandai]

Mike,

Thank you for a wonderful AAR.

You are entering 1944 in the game and kamikaze is being discussed.

There is a Betty bomber that carries the Ohka suicide rocket bomb. I am curious why that is not considered.I also wonder how this game builds the ohka . And if it is effective.

[Bif1961]

Historically Betty carrying Ohkas were often easy meat for the America CAP. If you were lucky enough to avoid American CAP or none was present then that would be an entirely different matter, but don't count on it.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants_MatrixForum

Why not assign some of your CV Zeros to sweep "hopefully" ahead of your strike?

Did you have either DBs or TBs with 10% NavS? For some reason this often helps with strikes.

Regardless of which side I'm playing, I have CV capable groups nearby so I can make them either fighter or strike heavy, as needed. As Allies, I tend to go with extra Marine fighters in '42 and withdraw the TBs for training.

Did you have some sort of NavS with arcs set over the base? Anybody on night NavS to help raise the always important DL?

Of course, don't overlook "mr weather." [:D]

Good idea on the Zeros. I tend to not think about sweeping with carrier fighters.

I usually do the 10% Nav Search thing, but took them off for some reason this time. I wanted to get maximum attack strength. Boy did that work out well. [8|]

I have naval search arcs all over the place. That's also why I decided to take the naval bombers off naval search.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Uncivil Engineer

I have an open hex for the Chungking garrison to retreat into. It's a clear hex that is surrounded so they wouldn't be able to move out of there and would have no supply available. I could bomb them into oblivion rather easily. But, if there's no retreat available, when they're pushed out of Chungking, they might just surrender enmasse? Not sure about that. Either way, that army isn't going to go anywhere.

If there is no retreat available that gets closer to a source of supply, then the units surrender instead. It doesn't matter if the adjacent hex is available/open/empty, if a supply route cannot be traced from there they are toast. C-87s

I agree with someone's comment that in the case of Chungking simply occupy the hex from all 6 sides and let the Chinese attack you.

The Chinese aren't going to attack me. They'll sit in place for the duration. I completed another turn (which I'll post shortly). I confirmed Ted is flying supply in from Ledo. He has some 36 auxiliary aircraft (transports) 15 hexes away. I damaged 7x C-87s which have the range to supply Chungking. I've started my offensive against Ledo.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

@ Mike,

I strongly caution against using a shock attack at Chungking. The deliberate attacks are always bloody enough without giving the defending Chinese an extra fire phase. Supplied or unsupplied, they're still hurt.

ORIGINAL: dasboot1960

My curiosity was running along with rustysi here (Chunking by October); is it just a generally accepted 'house rule' that all Kwantung army units should be bought out with PP, or should that only apply to forces loading out for non-mainland destinations? (I'm still trying to figure the niceties here, but I am involved in a 'no holds barred' game)

Loka (my opponent) and I decided on a no holds barred game. I don't regret it in the slightest. I'll never play with house rules again.

John, you're right. Shock attacks usually don't go my way unless it's armor against trashed units.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

5 subs (at least) trying to chase down the wounded Bunker Hill.

Find 'em, chase 'em, sink 'em.[:D]

Seriously though...

China

Bombers destroyed 16 and disabled 82 squads.

Instead of this, what about hitting the AF. You'll essentially stop any fortification efforts, cost him supply, and if you can shut it down, Ledo is more or less a moot point. He could still air drop, but I don't recall if that's in range.

In addition you need to start your artillery bombardments again. If its taking too long for the repay just set the times to zero temporarily. It really needs to be done.

I have a sentai that does nothing but bomb the airfield. It's always at or near 100% damage.

You'll see more below about the hunt for Bunker Hill.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Mandai

Mike,

Thank you for a wonderful AAR.

You are entering 1944 in the game and kamikaze is being discussed.

There is a Betty bomber that carries the Ohka suicide rocket bomb. I am curious why that is not considered.I also wonder how this game builds the ohka . And if it is effective.

Thank you. Not sure how you get the Ohka. Kind of fuzzy about it. I'll figure it out when the time comes. Not counting on it though as Bif1961 said.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: Mandai

Mike,

Thank you for a wonderful AAR.

You are entering 1944 in the game and kamikaze is being discussed.

There is a Betty bomber that carries the Ohka suicide rocket bomb. I am curious why that is not considered.I also wonder how this game builds the ohka . And if it is effective.

Thank you. Not sure how you get the Ohka. Kind of fuzzy about it. I'll figure it out when the time comes. Not counting on it though as Bif1961 said.

IIRC, you need the Andy Mac scenario updates for the Okha's to work properly. There was a error in the base game that meant the Okha device had a zero production rate and thus was never used.

I did some testing on them ages back. In terms of practical use within the game, they operate as normal Betty bombers, just with a Okha payload. They operate the exact same as a normal bomber on naval attack, and use the NavB skill (IIRC, not 100% sure, may be LowN). The only difference is that they avoid flak fire. It may be the case that altitude doesn't influence their accuracy, but I can't recall with 100% accuracy as I've lost my notes.

The damage profile from Okha impacts is very nice as well. Two hits will pretty much take out everything smaller than a cruiser. They have enough penetration value to get through every ship in game, so they don't bounce of BB's in the same way conventional kamis or bombs often do. Their effect rating is through the roof, with the Okha 11 model (the most common) having the same effect rating as a 16 inch gun. In terms of statistics, they're about equivalent to hitting ships with 16 inch shells.

That said, they're limited by the fact that you need to use the G4M2e model of the Betty and the P1Y3 model of the Frances. The Betty especially is pretty inferior by the time you get Okha's active in 10/44. The build rate isn't much of a limitation, as you get a production run of 450 Okha 11's (used on the Betty) between 10/44 and 3/45, then 12 a month of the Okha 22 (used on the Peggy) from 3/45 till the end of the game. 90/month is enough to have a squadron or two dedicated to them, but not enough for widespread usage.

Basically, they're a great niche weapon. I converted a squadron or two to use the G4M2e and funnelled the best of the IJN 2E bomber pilots into it. Didn't have much luck with night attacks, even though they're probably suited for it the best. It's made me think that you just need to throw them in with the large scale attacks on Allied CV's and hope enough leak through CAP to do some damage. They're definitely the "high" component in the high/low mix.

[Rusty1961]

I am aware that CAP will trash escorts every time, but I'm going to withdraw the A6M5 from carrier (and frontline) service. That lack of armor is telling. I had them on carriers (maybe a third of my carriers) for their range. Not worth it any more.

It is my understanding that armor only plays a part in pilot survivability. Durability determines if a plane is damaged or destroyed. Or is this wrong?

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

I am aware that CAP will trash escorts every time, but I'm going to withdraw the A6M5 from carrier (and frontline) service. That lack of armor is telling. I had them on carriers (maybe a third of my carriers) for their range. Not worth it any more.

It is my understanding that armor only plays a part in pilot survivability. Durability determines if a plane is damaged or destroyed. Or is this wrong?

No, it's implied by section 7.4.2.2 in the manual.

Endurance, speed, and bomb load are very important to the bomber. Aircraft such as the Flying Fortress have almost no maneuverability and will usually become damaged on the Mission, if opposed by interceptors or anti-aircraft artillery. However, damaged big bombers are lost more often on landing than in air-to-air combat. Smaller, faster aircraft, such as the Havoc, might be fast enough to avoid the better part of Flak and can maneuver against interceptors. This allows medium bombers, like the Mitchell, to fly unescorted Missions against the Japanese with an acceptable loss rate. Bombers without self-sealing fuel tanks, low durability, low speed, and only moderate firepower such as the Nell will suffer losses much higher than replacement rate, if unescorted and opposed. Bomb load is important, because it means more bomb damage and fewer Missions needing to be flown over the same target.

Armor on aircraft is thought to include self-sealing fuel tanks.

[rustysi]

I usually do the 10% Nav Search thing, but took them off for some reason this time. I wanted to get maximum attack strength. Boy did that work out well.

This is why I'm gearing up in my game to put the recon Judy's onto some of my carriers. They'll go in in small groups of say six aircraft to run Nav search. They will of course be 'over-stack' on the carriers.

I've started my offensive against Ledo.

If this is going overland its gonna be difficult to supply the forces involved. At least this has been my experience.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

I usually do the 10% Nav Search thing, but took them off for some reason this time. I wanted to get maximum attack strength. Boy did that work out well.

This is why I'm gearing up in my game to put the recon Judy's onto some of my carriers. They'll go in in small groups of say six aircraft to run Nav search. They will of course be 'over-stack' on the carriers.

I've started my offensive against Ledo.

If this is going overland its gonna be difficult to supply the forces involved. At least this has been my experience.

Rusty, there is no overland supply getting to Chungking, only by air:

[Mike Solli]

27 Nov 43

Sub War

The Gudgeon put a torpedo into a big, empty xAP off Babeldaob that was returning to the Home Islands. The damage was light enough that she can remain in the convoy and not slow it down more than a knot or two.

The Pargo took out an xAKL off Okinawa.

SW of Kwajalein, the I-40, hunting for US CVs, was caught by their escort and hit twice with DCs. She's headed home for repairs with moderate damage: 47-53(30)-1-0.

The RO-100 torpedoed and heavily damaged the APA Pierce at Aitape. Unfortunately, she was unloaded at the time.

5 Fleet

Nothing to report.

4 Fleet

Four CV deck loads of bombers hit Roi-Namur again today adding more damage to the airfield. It doesn't really matter because there are no operational planes there, and 3 fewer damaged planes now.

Five of my subs are still attempting to catch the Bunker Hill, to no avail. She keep eluding me. A couple of the subs are just about bingo and will have to head to Kwajalein for fuel soon.

SE Fleet

It looks like the only invasion force for Aitape was the 8 Aussie Division, which is far more than Ted needs to push out the dregs I have "defending" there. He did a deliberate assault with the expected outcome. I lost 18 Naval Guard, II/66 Naval Guard and 54 Construction Battalion. All will be rebuilt.

SRA

My carriers (MKB, Kaga and Shokaku) launched a few small attacks against shipping near Horn Island (looking unsuccessfully for the US CVLs in the area) and managed to put a 250 kg bomb into DD Mustin, taking no losses in return.

Burma

A Hurricane was shot down over Chittagong and a Warhawk was shot down over Ledo. My Helens caused light damage to Ledo's airfield and damaged 7 C-87s. He has some 3 dozen C-87s flying supply into Chungking. I'll continue to attempt to knock out the airfield there, but it's not likely to happen. AAA is now there and causing losses to my bombers each day. I keep raising their height, reducing the damage they cause.

China

My bombers killed 14 squads and disabled another 78. The next assault goes in tomorrow.

Other Stuff

The BB Colorado was confirmed sunk off Christmas Island by a sub. She had been torpedoed in September in the SE Fleet AO.

[rustysi]

Rusty, there is no overland supply getting to Chungking,

No, I get that. My reply was WRT your Ledo offensive. If that's going overland through the Burma jungle its gonna be tough to supply.

[Mike Solli]

28 Nov 43

Sub War

I keep the I-9 tooling around off Buna to see what happens to come up that way. Today she found and sank LST-451. [8|]

The I-20 finally intersected with the Bunker Hill TF, but didn't get a shot off. DD Balch used up all her ASW ammo hitting her once. Her damage is bad enough that she is headed home for repairs: 6-25(9)-4(2)-0.

The I-42 caught a BB TF and missed the CLAA Atlanta, but ate a DC and is headed to Soerabaja for repairs: 35-43(24)-0-0.

The Harder sank a fuel laden Std-C TK a couple hexes NE Palembang, along about the only route from there to Singapore. I had an ASW TF there and now have 2 more headed there. I'm going to keep filling my TFs at Palembang but they're going to wait until I can sink or drive off Harder.

The RO-106 ate 2 DCs at Aitape and is headed to Babeldaob for repairs: 45-64(27)-6(4)-0.

Finally, the Cargo caught and sank my newest AO, the tiny 1750 capacity one, a few hexes west of Nagasaki.

A totally unproductive day for my sub service. [8|]

5 Fleet

Nothing to report.

4 Fleet

The US carrier bombers (35 Helldivers, 101 Dauntlesses, 72 Avengers escorted by 54 Hellcats) added to the damage to Rot-Namur's airfield.

A handful of subs (minus I-20) continue to chase the wounded Bunker Hill. [8|]

SE Fleet

Ted is not doing much other than resting his bombers down here and repairing the damage to Aitape. I did not build up any infrastructure here, so if he want's some, he'll have to build it himself.

SRA

Five PB4Y-1s bombed Saumlaki's port (1 point of damage) but only 3 returned home. Intel reported an additional 2 were op losses.

Burma

A Frank and Hurricane were lost over Chittagong.

Over Ledo, two Warhawks were shot down but only light damage was done to the airfield. Three Helens were lost to flak.

China

Prior to the deliberate assault on Chungking, the bombers destroyed 18 squads and disabled 38 more.

Here's the deliberate assault:

Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 145917 troops, 1641 guns, 1385 vehicles, Assault Value = 5072

Defending force 345899 troops, 609 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 10322

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 2430

Allied adjusted defense: 9081

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 3 (fort level 0)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
22147 casualties reported
Squads: 32 destroyed, 1842 disabled
Non Combat: 7 destroyed, 174 disabled
Engineers: 4 destroyed, 189 disabled
Guns lost 183 (2 destroyed, 181 disabled)
Vehicles lost 42 (5 destroyed, 37 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
19694 casualties reported
Squads: 198 destroyed, 1383 disabled
Non Combat: 292 destroyed, 630 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 14 disabled
Guns lost 47 (6 destroyed, 41 disabled)
Units destroyed 7

Forts are gone! Also note that this is the first time the Chinese adjusted AV was lower than the raw AV! We're getting there.

I've been thinking about the best way to attack using my army. My total army is ~11k AV split almost evenly between two armies. There are 3 ways I can continue to attack the Chinese:

1. Split into 2 armies with roughly even AV. An attack occurs about every week, so about 2 weeks for an individual army recovers in about 2 weeks. (This is the way I am currently attacking.)

2. Split into 2 armies but attack on 2 consecutive days. This would happen about every 2 weeks.

3. Keep 1 army of 11k AV and attack every 2 weeks (or however long it takes to recover).

I think the best attack would be option #2. By doing it this way, the second attack would hit the Chinese army immediately after the first attack when the Chinese army has a bunch of disablements that haven't recovered. I'm going to try this next, in about 2 weeks.

What do you guys think?

Other Stuff

The N1K1-J George R&D advanced to 2/45 (will become operational 5/44).
The G4M2e Betty R&D advanced to 2/44 (will become operational 1/44).

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Rusty, there is no overland supply getting to Chungking,

No, I get that. My reply was WRT your Ledo offensive. If that's going overland through the Burma jungle its gonna be tough to supply.

Gotcha. I was talking about an air offensive.

[rustysi]

Five of my subs are still attempting to catch the Bunker Hill, to no avail. She keep eluding me. A couple of the subs are just about bingo and will have to head to Kwajalein for fuel soon.

[:(]

Oh well. There's nothing to do but try as long as you can. It does look as though she's eluded you.

[rustysi]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Rusty, there is no overland supply getting to Chungking,

No, I get that. My reply was WRT your Ledo offensive. If that's going overland through the Burma jungle its gonna be tough to supply.

Gotcha. I was talking about an air offensive.

Oh. Now we're on the same page.[:D]

[rustysi]

The Harder sank a fuel laden Std-C TK

IIRC, that's one famous sub.

[rustysi]

A totally unproductive day for my sub service.

Hey, at least you got an LST. Not to mention one of Bunker Hill's escorts is 'outta bullets'. Looks like I was wrong and she didn't quite get away. Keep hunting, I want that boat.[:D]