Why I won't Buy this game right now.

[z1812]

[font="Arial"]Hi Everyone,

I have been following the game closely. I also played the free version that was available.

There is a lot to this game and it it has great potential. However it has no PBEM so I will not buy it unless on sale at a very good price.

From watching youtube battles it appears to me that the the A.I. is too weak to support a Single Player game only. Wego and PBEM would kick the engine up to where it should be. It is unfortunate that such a good system is based solely on Single Play.

I wish the developers every success with this game. I really hope the future of this game will include PBEM and wego.

All the Best

John [/font]

[Veitikka]

ORIGINAL: z1812

[font="Arial"]Hi Everyone,

From watching youtube battles it appears to me that the the A.I. is too weak to support a Single Player game only. Wego and PBEM would kick the engine up to where it should be. It is unfortunate that such a good system is based solely on Single Play.
[/font]

I understand your view. However, could you name a tactical level real-time hardcore wargame that has a better dynamic AI opponent than this game has?

[Werewolf13]

ORIGINAL: Veitikka

ORIGINAL: z1812

[font="Arial"]Hi Everyone,

From watching youtube battles it appears to me that the the A.I. is too weak to support a Single Player game only. Wego and PBEM would kick the engine up to where it should be. It is unfortunate that such a good system is based solely on Single Play.
[/font]

I understand your view. However, could you name a tactical level real-time hardcore wargame that has a better dynamic AI opponent than this game has?

Command Ops 2: Just to be fair: Operational level but plays very, very tactical. In some ways AB reminds me of that game and that my friend is a high compliment as I consider CO2 the best wargame played at the Bn/Reg/Div/Corps level ever made for PC - bar none.

[z1812]

ORIGINAL: Veitikka

ORIGINAL: z1812

[font="Arial"]Hi Everyone,

From watching youtube battles it appears to me that the the A.I. is too weak to support a Single Player game only. Wego and PBEM would kick the engine up to where it should be. It is unfortunate that such a good system is based solely on Single Play.
[/font]

I understand your view. However, could you name a tactical level real-time hardcore wargame that has a better dynamic AI opponent than this game has?

Hi Veitikka,

I didn't mention any other games because at the moment they all suffer the same problem. Some games have an A.I. that is to some degree dependable when scenarios are designed, using whatever features a game may have, to increase the sensation of playing an "intelligent" opponent. Battle generators are the worst offenders in terms of poor A.I. performance.

The difference between those games and your's is that they can be played with an opponent by email. The only game I play that has no PBEM and does have a very reasonable A.I. is Command Ops 2. There are other games I could mention but they have PBEM so I rarely play them solitaire.

My point is that Game A.I., at its current point of development in regards to consumer games, is not yet at the stage of being able to offer a reasonable challenge. That is why PBEM is important.....at least for me.

[z1812]

ORIGINAL: Werewolf13

ORIGINAL: Veitikka

ORIGINAL: z1812

[font="Arial"]Hi Everyone,

From watching youtube battles it appears to me that the the A.I. is too weak to support a Single Player game only. Wego and PBEM would kick the engine up to where it should be. It is unfortunate that such a good system is based solely on Single Play.
[/font]

I understand your view. However, could you name a tactical level real-time hardcore wargame that has a better dynamic AI opponent than this game has?

Command Ops 2: Just to be fair: Operational level but plays very, very tactical. In some ways AB reminds me of that game and that my friend is a high compliment as I consider CO2 the best wargame played at the Bn/Reg/Div/Corps level ever made for PC - bar none.

I agree about Command Ops 2 and mentioned it in my reply to Veitikka. However I would be quite surprised, considering what I have seen of Armoured Brigade, that it would be at the same level. I don't have AB because it has no PBEM. Some friends, whose opinion I have come to trust, may buy it and if they recommend it then I will too. That is how I came to Command Ops 2. Even Command Ops 2 gets little play as I prefer a human opponent.

[Veitikka]

ORIGINAL: z1812

Hi Veitikka,

I didn't mention any other games because at the moment they all suffer the same problem. Some games have an A.I. that is to some degree dependable when scenarios are designed, using whatever features a game may have, to increase the sensation of playing an "intelligent" opponent. Battle generators are the worst offenders in terms of poor A.I. performance.

The difference between those games and your's is that they can be played with an opponent by email. The only game I play that has no PBEM and does have a very reasonable A.I. is Command Ops 2. There are other games I could mention but they have PBEM so I rarely play them solitaire.

My point is that Game A.I., at its current point of development in regards to consumer games, is not yet at the stage of being able to offer a reasonable challenge. That is why PBEM is important.....at least for me.

I agree 100% that with the technology we have we cannot match a real human opponent. I just want to make it clear that the Armored Brigade AI is certainly not any worse than the AI of the games it was inspired by: Steel Panthers, Close Combat, Combat Mission.

[z1812]

[/quote]

I agree 100% that with the technology we have we cannot match a real human opponent. I just want to make it clear that the Armored Brigade AI is certainly not any worse than the AI of the games it was inspired by: Steel Panthers, Close Combat, Combat Mission.

[/quote]

Where Battle Generators are concerned I agree with you....... but without actually playing Armoured Brigade I can't agree or disagree about stock scenarios. I would have to see how the TAC A.I. works for AB in a Designed Scenario
before commenting.

It may be a long time before, at the commercial level, we get anything even close to Human. In regards to games generally, I would settle for small improvements......like not having an A.I. move armor or infantry into position without any thought what-so-ever of cover.

[demyansk]

If you played against me, you would want the AI. Not all human players are good or play 12 hours straight. I play a bunch of games and not the master of any. Most of us probably get beat 50 percent of the time. I just played HPS Sicily game and lost, second time playing the game. Oh well.

[z1812]

ORIGINAL: demyansk

If you played against me, you would want the AI. Not all human players are good or play 12 hours straight. I play a bunch of games and not the master of any. Most of us probably get beat 50 percent of the time. I just played HPS Sicily game and lost, second time playing the game. Oh well.

I am sure you have much more character than the A.I., and so would be a much more enjoyable opponent.

I don't have that much time for gaming and I concentrate on 5 to 6 PBEM games that I always have on the go. I have never played 12 hours straight but I have been playing wargames for a very long time.

[Sorrow_Knight]

ORIGINAL: demyansk

If you played against me, you would want the AI. Not all human players are good or play 12 hours straight. I play a bunch of games and not the master of any. Most of us probably get beat 50 percent of the time. I just played HPS Sicily game and lost, second time playing the game. Oh well.

12 hours straight is not neccessary mostly. In almost all wargames battle lasts for about 1-2 hours (in my Combat Mission experience the longest combat last 3.5 hours), and it is not something unavailable to spare. You are right that not all human players are equal in their skill, but... if you will play against AI only your skill will nevet grow above the level of AI, fighting other people is the best skill training option.

[Sorrow_Knight]

ORIGINAL: z1812

[font="Arial"]Hi Everyone,

I have been following the game closely. I also played the free version that was available.

There is a lot to this game and it it has great potential. However it has no PBEM so I will not buy it unless on sale at a very good price.

From watching youtube battles it appears to me that the the A.I. is too weak to support a Single Player game only. Wego and PBEM would kick the engine up to where it should be. It is unfortunate that such a good system is based solely on Single Play.

I wish the developers every success with this game. I really hope the future of this game will include PBEM and wego.

All the Best

John [/font]

Thanks for translating my own thoughts... absense of multiplayer and very high cost of the game is the thing I won`t buy AB. Actually if AB cost be half of current (about 1400rubles... yes-yes I`m Russian) I`d think about buying it even without MP,but i`m not ready to pay $43 for gam that soon will just lay in my collection untouched.

[DwarfHeretic]

Another person here, same thoughts, same reasons. And, if anybody interested in, i'm Russian too.
And the other thing about me - i'm and AI programmer.
I can believe, that Ventikka made one of the best example of wargame AI ever, surely he had enough time for that.
But, to be fair, i'm not going to believe, that anybody can write AI without using a lot of machine learning techniques, that would be better in competitive tactic and strategy gameplay than humans do.
So, Venikka, if you using ML, it's time to open your cards.

[Capitaine]

ORIGINAL: Sorrow_Knight

ORIGINAL: z1812

[font="Arial"]Hi Everyone,

I have been following the game closely. I also played the free version that was available.

There is a lot to this game and it it has great potential. However it has no PBEM so I will not buy it unless on sale at a very good price.

From watching youtube battles it appears to me that the the A.I. is too weak to support a Single Player game only. Wego and PBEM would kick the engine up to where it should be. It is unfortunate that such a good system is based solely on Single Play.

I wish the developers every success with this game. I really hope the future of this game will include PBEM and wego.

All the Best

John [/font]

Thanks for translating my own thoughts... absense of multiplayer and very high cost of the game is the thing I won`t buy AB. Actually if AB cost be half of current (about 1400rubles... yes-yes I`m Russian) I`d think about buying it even without MP,but i`m not ready to pay $43 for gam that soon will just lay in my collection untouched.

Johnny One Note who won't give it up. Go. Away.

[rico21]

Hi Everyone,

I have been following the game closely but I don't played the free version that was available.

There is a lot to this game and it it has great potential. However it has no French units so I will not buy it unless on sale at a very good price.



I wish the developers every success with this game. I really hope the future of this game will include French Units.

All the Best

Rico.

[Dorb]

Appears should of made the game for free since no multiplayer huh. Guess you can always play the 100s of other games that cover the cold war like this - oh wait.

PC gaming can be an expensive hobby folks. $40 is not that much, I'm old school and recall them costing much more and came with nice big expensive printed manuals.

ps you can always buy board games to play multiplayer, but guess how much a good war board game cost...

Cheers all

[z1812]

@Sorrow_Knight @DwarfHeretic

Как дела? Приятно видеть, что некоторые из них разделяют мою точку зрения. Надеюсь, если больше людей попросят онлайн-игры, тогда разработчик включит его в будущем.

How is it going? Nice to see that some share my point of view. Hopefully if more people ask for online play, then the developer will include it in the future.

[KEYSTONE0795]

I bought it and I like it [:)]. Do I wish there was a wego option? - sure I do. Do I wish the AI was more sophisticated? - sure I do. Is it fun? - yes it is. I feel like I'm playing GMT's MBT series on the PC against a weak opponent. Do you how much the total purchase price is for GMT's MBT series? - a LOT MORE than $40.

[Sorrow_Knight]

ORIGINAL: Dorb

Appears should of made the game for free since no multiplayer huh. Guess you can always play the 100s of other games that cover the cold war like this - oh wait.

I`ve never said that AB should be free without multiplayer =) I just said, that current $42 is too expensive for wargame without MP. And yes, I can always play Flashpoint Campaigns or Combat Mission:Black Sea\Shock Force\Afghanistan etc.

PC gaming can be an expensive hobby folks. $40 is not that much, I'm old school and recall them costing much more and came with nice big expensive printed manuals.

PC gaming could be expensive but... well... I`ve paid $50 for Combat Mission: Black Sea, Normandy, Final Blitzkrieg and Red Thunder ($200 in total in exept patches for each game, that cost $10 each). But all CM`s HAS multiplayer, there is also 3D graphics etc... without all of this I think, that $43 for AB is too expensive, especially for Russian players (salaries here is much smaller, than in Europe).

[Dorb]

Sometimes its bigger than what is the best bang for the buck for you, guessing these folks that make this type of game are not a big fat cat sitting behind a big oak desk in a skyscraper planning on getting rich and never having to work again. sometimes you have a passion for gaming and the time period that is represented and make the game for folks that share that passion to enjoy. - Then again why would anyone want to waste their time and even try to make games like this in the first place these days.

Myself, I bought the game the other day and have not even played it yet as I look over the manual and hope to find the time to dig into it, but bought it for the topic/time period in which I grew up in and want to explore it more and realize that there simply are not that many games that cover this interesting time and possible conflicts. But then again to each their own.

Thanks again for making this game only $40.00 as this is the least I can offer you to keep supporting this game and making others like it.

[pensfanvw]

Well said, Dorb!