Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

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Mike Solli
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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by Mike Solli »

ORIGINAL: rustysi
I'll need to have combined attacks to get the magic 2:1 to push the Chinese Army out of Chungking/force its surrender.

My experience has shown that enemy forces with nowhere else to go will surrender rather than retreat. You've captured everything else in China, no? If so I'm guessing they'll surrender, even if they have an exit route.

Just about. There are two Chinese corps that are marooned in different hexes and are surrounded. There also is an army of ~100k (probably less now) 6 or 8 hexes to the SE of Chungking that is cut off in a base hex (with no infrastructure) that is in a clear hex. I'll bomb them all into oblivion once Chungking capitulates. Chungking is isolated but getting a smattering of supply from Ledo, which I'm trying to shut down.
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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by Mike Solli »

1 Dec 43

Sub War

Subs (and ASW) were busy today...

The SS Escolar finally got frisky and entered Truk's hex. She ate a DC from Shinonome. Hopefully, she took enough damage to go home. She's been a real nuisance.

Two hexes NE of Palembang, the Tachikaze hit Harder with a DC. She's sitting right on my route from Palembang to Singapore. I've got a couple of ASW TFs prosecuting her, along with some Sallies on ASW. All that in a shallow hex. [:D]

Just NW of Brunei, a PB on ASW duty was sunk by Seadragon. Another Ansyu bites the dust.

Finally, the I-22 made an attempt at Bunker Hill. She ended up taking 2 DCs, was driven to the surface where she took 3x 5" shells and got away. She's attempting to limp to "safe" port at Kwajalein with heavy damage: 46-88(38)-16(6)-0. More on that below.

5 Fleet

The Sally sentai bombed the Allied troops at Umnak. The BB bombardment force is still a few days out. The carriers are hiding in the Pacific until the BBs arrive. Then, I'll go in with both barrels and attempt a Deliberate Assault.

4 Fleet

The I-22 engaged Bunker Hill's TF (I think) but never spotted the carrier. This was 6 hexes west of Pearl Harbor. What I discovered is that there are 2 damaged carriers there. They split up into 2 TFs. One is 6 hexes out and the other is 4 hexes out. I had no idea. Wonder what damaged the second carrier? I missed something somewhere.

Anyway, I-22 is limping home. There are only 2 subs remaining, and they both are short of fuel. Once more day to attempt to engage the western most carrier (probably Bunker Hill, but who really knows). Then they'll both have to return to Kwajalein to refuel.

SE Fleet

Pretty quiet here. Ted was happy to send over 100 bomber sorties against Rabaul's troop. What few there are there...

SRA

I sent 5 DDs south on a little side trip to clear out the xAKLs that were attracting my carrier planes, while my carriers withdrew north a bit to hide from Allied snoopers. I didn't find the baby cargo ships but I did find the enemy carriers. Turns out there are 3x CVLs: Princeton, Belleau Wood and Cowpens. In the ensuing action, both side's DDs wasted a lot of torpedoes and I got a single 5" hit on a BB, destroying some radar. They hit little Tanikaze (a Kagero) 7 times, including 2x 16 inchers and leaving her burning. The one up side was that Cowpens and CLAA Atlanta collided in the confusion. Then the Allied TF escaped. [:D]

The Allied TF was composed of 3 CVLs, 3 BBs, 2 CLAAs, 5 CLs and 12 DDs.

The two TFs blundered into each other again. The Allied ships focused on poor little Tanikaze. She was a torch in the dark, after all. The Allied TF then fled again to the south and out of sight.

Tanikaze sank later that day, my first Kagero loss of the war.

Burma

The weather must have been bad in the region today, because the only attack was 8 Helens escorted by 21 Oscars against Ledo where they met 5 Warhawks. I lost 2 Oscars vs. 1 Warhawk, and one Helen was lost to flak. Light damage was done to the airfield that was easily repaired. This ain't the way to close an airfield. [8|]

China

As I said earlier, I'm going to try a single 11k AV attack. Troops are resting for that event. No bombers flew in China today, probably due to weather. They probably needed the rest anyway.

Other Stuff

Reinforcement: CVE Shinyo, 33 plane capacity, slower than molasses. This is the last CVE I'm building. She'll carry 24 Zeros and 9 Judies.

I heard sinking 3 times during the turn. I suspect one was poor Tanikaze, but the other 2 were Allied. No clue what they were. Both damaged Allied subs were reported sunk, but the points don't reflect that, so who knows. The two carriers are showing up west of Pearl, so it wasn't one of them. (Hell, until now I had no idea there were 2).

The D4Y4 Judy R&D advanced to 11/44 (will become operational 4/44).

I had 2 BB (Ise & Hyuga), 2 CL and 2 DD enter refit at various ports.

My TACOM pilots were slackers last month. I had 39 IJN pilots accelerate in month 10 and 12 IJN pilots accelerate in month 8. [8|]

I did get 728 IJA pilots graduate today. That's really nice. My IJA pilot pool was empty. I can really use them in my training units.

Not sure if I mentioned it earlier, but I decided to convert my size 360 Ha-34 engine factory to the Ha-45. That happened today.
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ny59giants
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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by ny59giants »

Reinforcement: CVE Shinyo, 33 plane capacity, slower than molasses. This is the last CVE I'm building. She'll carry 24 Zeros and 9 Judies.

Early in war while the Empire is expanding, I convert the faster TKs to AOs.
You lose a little in liquid capacity, but gives you move flexibility.
Now, I would make Replenishment TFs with those AOs and one of those very slow CVEs.
The CVE would have 33 Kates/Jills and trained up in ASW.
Follow KB or use in regular TK runs with oil/fuel to Home Islands.
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rustysi
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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by rustysi »

I had 2 BB (Ise & Hyuga)

Have you considered the conversion of any of these BB's. I know the air component may be of little use (could assist ASW or search though), but it does double the heavy AAA component from 8 to 16. Since I embed BB's in my CV TF's it could help. If you don't put the BB's in with the CV's then obviously its of no real use.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

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rustysi
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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by rustysi »

I sent 5 DDs south on a little side trip to clear out the xAKLs that were attracting my carrier planes, while my carriers withdrew north a bit to hide from Allied snoopers. I didn't find the baby cargo ships but I did find the enemy carriers. Turns out there are 3x CVLs:

Figures.[8|]
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by Mike Solli »

ORIGINAL: ny59giants_MatrixForum
Reinforcement: CVE Shinyo, 33 plane capacity, slower than molasses. This is the last CVE I'm building. She'll carry 24 Zeros and 9 Judies.

Early in war while the Empire is expanding, I convert the faster TKs to AOs.
You lose a little in liquid capacity, but gives you move flexibility.
Now, I would make Replenishment TFs with those AOs and one of those very slow CVEs.
The CVE would have 33 Kates/Jills and trained up in ASW.
Follow KB or use in regular TK runs with oil/fuel to Home Islands.

I did that with a number of the 11.6k TKs I built, converting about 8 to 10.4k AOs if I remember correctly. They're a third Replenishment TF. I use them to haul oil or fuel when not needed for operations. I've been really lucky with my TK losses. Of the large ones, only one 12k TK has been lost. It just blew up one day, fully loaded, of course. Some idiot with a match. [8|] My large TK convoys coming from Singapore have been doing stellar work keeping Singapore drained of fuel and oil. I change around their routes periodically. He's having a hard time finding them. Eventually, he'll just flood the South China Sea with subs and then it'll get tough. That's what I'd do.
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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by Mike Solli »

ORIGINAL: rustysi
I had 2 BB (Ise & Hyuga)

Have you considered the conversion of any of these BB's. I know the air component may be of little use (could assist ASW or search though), but it does double the heavy AAA component from 8 to 16. Since I embed BB's in my CV TF's it could help. If you don't put the BB's in with the CV's then obviously its of no real use.

The only BBs I use with KB are the Kongos. The others are too slow. I probably won't bother with the conversion.
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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by rustysi »

The others are too slow.

I tend to divide my CV's by speed and match BB's to that speed. My KB's are, KB-F, KB-M, KB-S. Kongo's go to -F, Yamato's to -M, Ise's to -S.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
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Mike Solli
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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by Mike Solli »

ORIGINAL: rustysi
The others are too slow.

I tend to divide my CV's by speed and match BB's to that speed. My KB's are, KB-F, KB-M, KB-S. Kongo's go to -F, Yamato's to -M, Ise's to -S.

I understand, but the fastest of the lot are the Kongos at 30 kt. The other BBs are not fast enough allow the carriers to run away really, really, quick. [;)]

At any rate, I'm still having too much fun using my BB main batteries to give those nasty Allies a snoot full.
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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by Zorch »

Question: How much does having BBs in a TF distract enemy planes from CVs?
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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by Mike Solli »

People say it matters, but I'm not so sure. I think it's just random dumb luck when planes go after BBs vs. CVs. My escorts are there for AAA and ASW, nothing more. Yeah, the big guns are nice when an enemy surface fleet blunders into my carriers, but that's actually pretty rare.
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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

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I think I remember something way back about this, but I tend to agree with you. If there is any code, it has to be pretty minor. BB/CV's seem to be weighted equally as targets. Then CA's. Of course detection has a lot to do with it … mistakes (poor target selection) is far more common at low detection in my experience.
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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

People say it matters, but I'm not so sure. I think it's just random dumb luck when planes go after BBs vs. CVs. My escorts are there for AAA and ASW, nothing more. Yeah, the big guns are nice when an enemy surface fleet blunders into my carriers, but that's actually pretty rare.

The issue is that without any BBs, those "would maybe target a BB" attacks are going on the CVs almost for sure.

Very rarely will planes attack cruisers or destroyers instead of a CV. It does happen, but not many planes in the attack do that.
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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by Mike Solli »

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

People say it matters, but I'm not so sure. I think it's just random dumb luck when planes go after BBs vs. CVs. My escorts are there for AAA and ASW, nothing more. Yeah, the big guns are nice when an enemy surface fleet blunders into my carriers, but that's actually pretty rare.

The issue is that without any BBs, those "would maybe target a BB" attacks are going on the CVs almost for sure.

Very rarely will planes attack cruisers or destroyers instead of a CV. It does happen, but not many planes in the attack do that.

Yep, that sounds right. I'm going to start keeping closer track of bomber numbers and what they target. Should have done that long ago.
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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by rustysi »

The other BBs are not fast enough allow the carriers to run away really, really, quick.

Kaga IIRC, 27 knts, Yamato, 27 knts. Hiyo 25 knts, Ise 25 knts. Speeds are the same its why I do it that way. Of course I group other like vessels.

BTW Kaga for me doesn't 'run' with the main KB due to low speed.
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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by Lokasenna »

Why? How often do you run at flank?

They have the same cruise speed. For that matter, many of the CVEs also have the same cruise speed. Mission speed is unreliable; cruise speed always goes the amount of hexes it says it goes. Full speed always goes the amount of hexes it says it goes.

Anyway, unless fuel is a concern then Yamatos with KB is fine. I've even done Ise/Hyuga for the AA.
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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by rustysi »

How often do you run at flank?

Whenever you're involved in combat, and that's where it matters. Beyond that you are quite correct.
I've even done Ise/Hyuga for the AA.

Not totally sure what you mean here. Are you talking about the conversions?

BTW keep in mind that's the way I prefer to run. Doesn't mean I always do. Situations change and normally dictate tactics that are employed.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by Lokasenna »

Yes, the conversions. They have reasonable AA.

And you don't always run at flank in combat, or at least I hope you don't - waste of fuel [;)]. The loss of 1 or 2 hexes of flank speed is not all that big of a deal if you've positioned yourself correctly to begin with.
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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

Post by Lowpe »

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I think I remember something way back about this, but I tend to agree with you. If there is any code, it has to be pretty minor. BB/CV's seem to be weighted equally as targets. Then CA's. Of course detection has a lot to do with it … mistakes (poor target selection) is far more common at low detection in my experience.

I don't think that is correct, I think it is a factor of DL and also perhaps from the commander of the carrier task forces. I know from personal experience when DL are low my planes attack BBs far more often than CVs, and when DL is high, they attack CVs almost exclusively.

Also, I think if they can be spotted at night prior, that helps with a morning and afternoon attack.

But putting in slower battleships, does mean the task force is a little easier to be hit I think. Always a tradeoff somewhere...
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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

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Is Alfred in the room? [:D]
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