Was Pearl Harbor Preemptive?

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Zorch

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy




Of course it is. But isn't that rather self-evident? I mean anyone who knows anything about industrial tubing type 625 knows that Inconel tubing performs well in environments of "high elevated" temperature. But what about applications in environments of "low elevated" temperature or "high decreased" temperature? What then pray tell?

warspite1

Believe me CB you don't want to know.... This is serious, big boy s***. I only use Inconel type 625 for all my personal tubing needs - whether high elevated or low.

Trust me on this.

Off Topic!

Forum guidelines quite clearly specify Inconel tubing as verboten.
Moderator, please lock this thread. [:D]

Personally, I use PVC tubing. PVC, velcro, and duct tape can fix anything.

Zorch:

Yes, we're familiar with your preferred use of such tubing. But let's keep this a PG-13 forum, shall we?

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Zorch

ORIGINAL: warspite1


warspite1

Believe me CB you don't want to know.... This is serious, big boy s***. I only use Inconel type 625 for all my personal tubing needs - whether high elevated or low.

Trust me on this.

Off Topic!

Forum guidelines quite clearly specify Inconel tubing as verboten.
Moderator, please lock this thread. [:D]

Personally, I use PVC tubing. PVC, velcro, and duct tape can fix anything.

Zorch:

Yes, we're familiar with your preferred use of such tubing. But let's keep this a PG-13 forum, shall we?

Oh Behave!

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Lobster
Personally I think using the term preemptive is incorrect. To call it that implies that an attack by the U.S. against Japan was imminent. It smacks of yet more history editing.

Of course.

I also bristle at the commentary that the Japanese had no choice other than to attack PH and the PI post-oil embargo. They could have agreed to our terms for a normalized relationship or worked elsewhere for their strategic petroleum needs. They apparently (mis)calculated that to do so was not worth their costs to save face, stop pillaging China and play nice on the international stage. They chose war. They chose their pre-emptive strike.

warspite1

I always find funny (and by that I mean bloody irritating) the criticism labelled at the British and French for desperately trying to stop another catastrophic war (just a generation after the last one) by appeasement policy - and then the same armchair critics who criticise the Americans for trying to stop Japan by stronger arm tactics.

So basically, to these wise-acres both attempts, despite being diametrically opposed, were both wrong. So easy to bash the democracies regardless of what they did - especially with hindsight ...[:(]

IIRC, the reason for appeasement was that the British and French were not ready for war, but thought Germany was. She wasn't either, but they didn't know that. In Chris Crwaford's strategy book on his game Balance of Power, he wrote than when they entered the war when Poland was invaded, Hitler turned to Goebbels and asked "Now what?".

As for a "preemptive strike" on the US, I don't see it. Again, IIRC, US naval theory at the time was that a fleet lost 10% effectiveness for every 1,000 miles from base. Both sides considered battleships worth far more than carriers, According to the book 'The Attack on Pearl Harbor: Strategy, Combat, Myths, Deceptions', Yamamoto was quite willing to trade the six carriers for sinking US battleships. But, I ramble.....

[Lecivius]

ORIGINAL: Zorch


Personally, I use PVC tubing. PVC, velcro, and duct tape can fix anything.

[Gilmer]

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

In August, 1941 the UK captured a German spy who had been tasked to get info for the Japanese ambassador about the attack by Royal Navy carriers on the Italian battleships in Toranto and also on the defenses of Pearl Harbor. They gave this intel to the USA. So either someone should have known and was incredibly incompetent or someone made a decision to allow the attack.

A Taranto-style attack was considered by the USN to be impossible. Pearl Harbor is shallow: at low tide the battleship keels were only feet off of the sea floor. Air-dropped torpedoes would bottom out.

What they did not know was that the Japanese developed special torpedoes with wooden fins (you can see them in a shot of Pearl Harbor) which ran shallow. And also bombs made from modified battleship AP shells capable of punching through deck armor, which the British did not yet have.

It is true that FDR was trying to get the U.S. involved in WWII, but his target was Nazi Germany rather than Japan. And during October 1941, he had pretty much succeeded: besides the munitions supplied by Lend-Lease, the USN was in a shooting war with the U-boats. (The U-boats were winning, but that's beside the point.)

Agreed.

[Pvt_Grunt]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: inconelpipe

Inconel 625 tubing used in so many industrial applications performed high elevated temperature. The resistivity of the inconel tubes help to manage the temperature and perform well in these kind of environments.

Of course it is. But isn't that rather self-evident? I mean anyone who knows anything about industrial tubing type 625 knows that Inconel tubing performs well in environments of "high elevated" temperature. But what about applications in environments of "low elevated" temperature or "high decreased" temperature? What then pray tell?

I am a total idiot!! I've been using Inconel 624 all this time! [8|][8|][8|]

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Warspite1
I am a total idiot!!

Agreed.

[Lecivius]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Warspite1
I am a total idiot!!

Agreed.

Seconded

[TulliusDetritus]

NO.

27 replies and no one mentioned the most pertinent unavoidable issue during the interwar period.

ISOLATIONISM

It is well known that the Big Depression ended in fact only in 1945, despite Roosevelt's efforts (New Deal). So you're saying that a mess of a country was going to start a dangerous adventure abroad?

That's some science-fiction.

If you're attacked then you can get the whole population behind and start a massive mobilisation. And that's exactly what happened.

But (democratically speaking) such an strike could not be done, repeat, could not be done in one million years in the US circa early 1940s.

That Roosevelt wanted to join the struggle, that's another different story. But he needed an excuse to circumvent the unescapable isolationism of the US population.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Warspite1
I am a total idiot!!

Agreed.

Seconded

warspite1

Thirdeded

[warspite1]

NO.

29 replies and no one mentioned the most pertinent unavoidable issue about Inconel 625.

LOW ELEVATED

Inconel 625 can't be used for Low elevated temperature and is inferior to 624.

That's some science-fiction.

It is well known that Inconel 625 deals superbly with High elevated temperature. But is equally at home in the low elevated environment. If you want the best product for all tubing needs - Inconel 625 is where it's at.

[Hexagon]

Well, the problem with USA and his relations with Japan was expect Japan do nothing or do what can be engaged on his own terms.

Japan was not specially strong in land area (core of army stuck in China and not enough resources to deal with core objetives and interesting objetives at same time... landings eat a lot of resources) and this maybe is why allies in Pacific survive first 7 months of war... imagine a landing force at same time air attack... USA could be forced to attack attack attack to recover the terrain and Japan could ambush them in a moment USA lacks the "cheat" of know what enemy was planning.

Pearl Harbour was a hit and run attack, more successfull than USA expected (Taranto attack for made the type of attack was not a total surprise surprise... but at least the submarine part failed unlike the Alexandria raid) but less valuable from a japanese perspective (Carriers dictate the operations in Pacific war for main actors in sea part).

As movie... Pearl harbour is a clear a lot of spam between the 2-3 better moments... well, at least in the end SPOILER WARNING!!! appear Captain America and saves the day... well this is false but could elevate movie quality [:D]

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: warspite1
Inconel 625 is where it's at.

Where what's at?

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: warspite1
Inconel 625 is where it's at.

Where what's at?

warspite1

The extraordinarily riveting world of tubing application in both the industrial and domestic spheres.

Keep up!

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: warspite1
Inconel 625 is where it's at.

Where what's at?

warspite1

The extraordinarily riveting world of tubing application in both the industrial and domestic spheres.

Keep up!

No no no, you git. Inconel 625 is not used for riveting at all! See this excellent review of the riveting world in applications for the industrial and domestic spheres:

https://www.thomasnet.com/about/rivets-68323401.html

Please note the final sentence of the opening summary paragraph: "Perhaps the most important aspect of a rivet is its ability to withstand significant cold-working without degradation."

In other words, rivet fasteners excel in their ability to withstand stresses in the low elevated temperature environment.