Is the water always fordable?

[zoikkis]

I've been messing around a bit with the free version 0813c and noticed that the water in all eleven bundled maps seems to be fordable by all the units I tried (tanks and infantry) and with a fast speed.

Is this gonna change in the commercial version so that not all rivers and lakes are fordable by every unit? I guess they are not all supposed to be amphibious units.

[Veitikka]

In the commercial version rivers are impassable by default, and all of them can be set to passable/impassable/frozen in the battle settings, or alternatively the scenario designer can paint the river crossing points in the deep water areas.

[zoikkis]

That's great news, thanks for the info and good luck with the release!

[Hexagon]

Ummm how deal with them amphibious vehicles (or vehicles that can cross them with minimal preparation)??? you can force them cross river to prevent they enter in "BMPs of the lost bridge"???

With infantry... they can carry boats as equipment and you can do like in Steel Panthers made they use them if you want???

Thanks.

[Veitikka]

ORIGINAL: Hexagon

Ummm how deal with them amphibious vehicles (or vehicles that can cross them with minimal preparation)??? you can force them cross river to prevent they enter in "BMPs of the lost bridge"???

With infantry... they can carry boats as equipment and you can do like in Steel Panthers made they use them if you want???

Thanks.

Currently the only way to cross a deep river is to have 'water crossing points' designated by the scenario designer. These turn the deep water into shallow water, and it's then passable to all units.

[Hexagon]

I see, thanks, this is something with a heavy impact in other wargames because you can have nasty surprises if you base your defense in rivers and soviets decide "walk on the waters", this is one of the strongest points in soviet side and know if they can do it or not is important.

[bbushh]

Okay so.....is there going to be some change so my various Russian vehicles can go for a swim as they can in real life?....this would only make sense realistically but perhaps there is some game reason it can't be done....that would be extremely sad as it is really necessary for realism and it's exclusion (amphibious vehicles) tarnishes an otherwise EXCELLENT game.

[Red2112]

If it´s to mimic real life, then some sectors of a river could be fordable and some not, thus then you would get stuck in sectors that are not fordable, and that unit would be out of service for the rest of the game. Which is what happens in Steel Beast. "Cross river at your own risk" [:)]

Personally I don´t like that "passable" river sectors are to be of a different color. Simply because that can be used in a defensive action, and it´s not that realistic. Shallow water makes sense to have a different color, but that´s about it. I would really need to see all this on map to make a statment TBH.

As we all know, river beds are not even throughout...

So I would rather see AVLB´s added to the OOB, which in turn could be destroyed by OPFOR.

Red
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[bbushh]

What does "fordable" have to do with anything?....not trying to be rude but several Russian vehicles and others can swim even large bodies of water.....

[Veitikka]

I quote our developer from another thread.

... the amphibious crossing is not simple as just driving your vehicle into the water.

The depth and width of the river, bank conditions, and the current’s velocity are major factors to determine the unit’s ability to conduct a crossing, even if amphibious. These factors will determine if the force can cross by fording/swimming, and by rule, reconnaissance of the near shore and predetermined crossing sites are necessary. Such actions are performed, whenever possible, by engineer reconnaissance teams which might be drawn from the divisional level, identifying "wet gaps" early and deploying the required resources to allow hasty crossings.

Also, due to the limited organic crossing assets, additional support from echelons above the brigade combat team or regiment is often necessary. That support is only available when that HQ have taken purposeful action to position the assets at the right time and place and integrate them with the manoeuvre force to make a hasty crossing feasible. Coordination of these assets must be made early in the planning process.

So, it is a complex process, both doctrinally and in game terms. Currently, we do have shallow water and fording areas which (at least abstractly) assume above-mentioned preparations were made. I don't exclude that in future we might expand river crossing operations with amphibious vehicles and bridging equipment.