Tiger vs T-34. advice need !

steel · Post by **steel** » Thu May 31, 2001 6:32 pm

I been taking pbem game With Russian side vs Germany.It is only Tiger vs T-34 battle !

Battle is summer and large map with 5000 battle points ,witch can promise 38 guantity T34 and 28,5 Tiger.Very hard battle i think.

I will tell detailed battle report later when battle is ended.If i been alive

Tell me your opinion how battle maybe ended.

Ps.I will need a lot off strategy advice from all SPWAW members ! Thanks

and Tortefeasor dont read this thread at all.There is maybe secret information how beat Tiger with T-34 (76,2mm gun)

Steel :rolleyes:

Resisti · Post by **Resisti** » Thu May 31, 2001 7:02 pm

Steel,if you're running version 5.01,you will want to play the two tutorials provided with the game which are EXACTLY abt yr request: Tiger vs. T34 and viceversa.
It's a must !

steel · Post by **steel** » Thu May 31, 2001 7:22 pm

Yes i use 5.01. I will take tour the scenarios.

Thanks Resisti.

Steel

achappelle · Post by **achappelle** » Thu May 31, 2001 7:34 pm

Flank attack with your T34s, use one platoon to "fix" the Tigers in place, suppress them ad make them use up op fire, then use another platoon to hit their weak flanks. T34's speed helps with this. Try to move and attack in such a way that you get alll your tanks able to fire at one Tiger, and minimize the number of tanks able to fire back. Sometimes having Tank Desant troops dismount and throw smoke to create "fire lanes" A little arty prep fire on top of the Tigers helps too, strips any infantry support from them, and adds suppression.

Larry Holt · Post by **Larry Holt** » Thu May 31, 2001 8:04 pm

In any situation where you are faced with fighting an opponent who has heavier units than you:

Use your superior numbers to maneuver around to take shots against vulnerable flank and rear sides. Once you have units firing from multiple directions, no matter which way they turn, you can get a rear shot.

Take lots of shots. Even if you can't hope to achieve a penetrating hit, you might break the main gun or its optics or disable its suspension. In either case, your opponent can not fight it successfully.

Infantry close assaults are deadly!

Charles2222 · Post by **Charles2222** » Thu May 31, 2001 9:24 pm

If I understood steel correctly, he's talking about a battle with ONLY Tigers and T34s, in other words no other untis allowed. I think the best the T34/76 user can expect is a draw, and by that I mean a relatively even point total on both sides.

Some of the AOE type unit testing that went on a while back, found the "T34/85" losing by something of a 2.9 to 1.0 margin, so it don't look good. I even wonder if the T34/76 can pierce the side hull armor of the Tiger at range 10 or greater.

achappelle · Post by **achappelle** » Thu May 31, 2001 10:33 pm

Historically, the Sovs lost about 5 tanks to 1 German, so 2.9 to 1 is a pretty good engagement result. I would say that better tactics are necessary, for example, if your gun can't penetrate the side of a Tiger @ more than 10 hexes, lay some smoke and get in close.

Tortfeasor · Post by **Tortfeasor** » Thu May 31, 2001 11:08 pm

So the Russian T34-43s are getting help with the tactics.
Dont wory Steel I will not read those tips you get.
I dont think it will be to hard to get this game to an quick ending, just remember Steel to tie you on your chair.

Mayby I can use the same tactics as the russians

Figmo · Post by **Figmo** » Fri Jun 01, 2001 5:08 am

Steel,

The only adice I can give is get in close. That's what the Russians did at Prokhorovka. So put out a lot of smoke and CHARGE!! But honestly, if you don't have at least two to one odds - you are going to die!!

Figmo

Redleg · Post by **Redleg** » Fri Jun 01, 2001 5:39 am

Look at the points that a T34 costs vs what a Tiger costs..... you cannot afford to lose 5 T34s for every Tiger.

I am glad I am not playing the Soviet in that battle. Can you can use your speed to get the Tigers coming to you??????? Some stationary short range shots at moving Tigers might be useful.

Some other T34s drawing fire at long range to use up the Tigers AP rounds might be good.
If Command/Control is off, that will help your maneuver a lot and aid in drawing fire and then getting back to safety.

My T34s typically fire once and then die.

Tortfeasor · Post by **Tortfeasor** » Fri Jun 01, 2001 8:00 am

Originally posted by Charles_22:
If I understood steel correctly, he's talking about a battle with ONLY Tigers and T34s, in other words no other untis allowed.

You understood it correctly Charles.

For 5000 points we purchased Tigers and T-34-43s. in a year 1943 time frame.
I wonder if it is posible to drive the Tiger to the same hex as the T34-m43 and press alt/o button. :rolleyes:

Charles2222 · Post by **Charles2222** » Fri Jun 01, 2001 5:12 pm

I wonder if it is posible to drive the Tiger to the same hex as the T34-m43 and press alt/o button.

Yeah, that sounds like a good desperation tactic. A couple of problems though, with what appears to have been intended to be a silly remark: a) The Tiger is the larger of the two and probably has more MGs, therefore T34 loses again. b) I don't think overruns can commence on other armor, and it would be slightly ridiculous if it did, unless we were talking about overrunning T26s with Tigers.

Yes, but what about trying a melee? I guess armor can't do it, right? Maybe the T34s could hope to blow off all the Tiger tracks and then run away and just subject them to emough suppresive fire that they would abandon them? One huge advantage the T34 has, however, is how quickly it'll accumulate those deadly crews running about. So, I say, either overrun, melee, or get destroyed deliberately so the real strength of that Russian tank can show forth (the crews of course). Unleashing the T34 crews will guarantee a draw :rolleyes: !

Charles2222 · Post by **Charles2222** » Fri Jun 01, 2001 5:19 pm

And you and I both thought I was kidding. See this from the special oofire thread (how timely):

No, I did nothing of the kind. I ran a closed top Sig up next to a fieldwork. No infantry of any kind were hurt in this exchange. Hell, these are the same kind of crew that bail out of wrecked T-34s.
And yet three of these demigods had a better than 3 in 4 chance of wrecking an SP gun with an AAMG, facing them 50 meters away, using nothing but "assorted small arms". Having just been blown through the wall of a machine gun nest by a direct hit from a 15 cm shell, they did this. The heck with the machine guns, I'm bailing my Soviet crews out and using them to close assault!

Tortfeasor · Post by **Tortfeasor** » Fri Jun 01, 2001 11:57 pm

My first! shot that I have fired in this game, went through the front pansar of the ex T-34 from a distans of over 600 meters.

The score is now Ger - Ruski 2 - 0
I try to get 38 - 0. :p

Tortfeasor · Post by **Tortfeasor** » Sat Jun 02, 2001 12:07 am

Originally posted by Charles_22:
Unleashing the T34 crews will guarantee a draw :rolleyes: !

If he unleashes the crews, then I would unleashe one tank crew of mine and they would destroy the T-34 by standing in the same hex one move.

.
It might work.

Charles2222 · Post by **Charles2222** » Sat Jun 02, 2001 3:27 am

Tortfeasor: You're going to have to ride a careful balance there. If you see him use the dirty trick of resorting to using crews, then start direct-bombarding hexes, in the hopes of creating craters. The reason you will need the craters is because when you counter his sneaky crew attack, with your crews abandoning your own tanks, then you can once again have the advantage by placing your own crews in the cover of the craters.

Fabio Prado · Post by **Fabio Prado** » Sat Jun 02, 2001 8:43 am

The Tiger I was the main T-34 predator in the Russian battlefields during 1943-early 44.
When facing Tiger Heavy Battalions, the Russian odds were not 5 to 1, but 10 to 1 (from 20 September 1943 to 10 January 1944, the s.PzAbt.506 reported 213 Russian tanks and 194 anti-tank guns destroyed at a loss of 19 Tigers)!
However, Tigers were not indestructible. Many good tactics were already described in this thread, so I will only emphasize the core of the T-34 tactics against Tigers...

1.The Tiger is essentially an open field weapon.This means that if you are facing them in an open steppe, with little or none features that can enable you to sneak closer and closer to them, you are in trouble! But if you can get closer and make many T-34 fire at the same Tiger from the sides or better yet, from the rear, you'll have a reasonable chance to disable it and even to destroy it.
2.The Tiger's main asset is not its armor, but its gun. It was the combination of the thicker armor plus the effective range of the 88mm KwK 36L/56 that enabled the Tigers to dominate an open battlefield by being able to destroy his opponents from a distance where they couldn't harm it. So, what the Russians did were to do their best to negate the Tiger's firepower advantage, by getting as closer as they could without the Tiger's crews spotting them.

I hope this helps...

Fab

[ June 02, 2001: Message edited by: Fabio Prado ]

Gallo Rojo · Post by **Gallo Rojo** » Sat Jun 02, 2001 6:33 pm

Originally posted by steel:
I been taking pbem game With Russian side vs Germany.It is only Tiger vs T-34 battle !

Battle is summer and large map with 5000 battle points ,witch can promise 38 guantity T34 and 28,5 Tiger.Very hard battle i think.

I will tell detailed battle report later when battle is ended.If i been alive

Tell me your opinion how battle maybe ended.

Ps.I will need a lot off strategy advice from all SPWAW members ! Thanks

and Tortefeasor dont read this thread at all.There is maybe secret information how beat Tiger with T-34 (76,2mm gun)

Steel :rolleyes:

Only Tigers vs T-34?

There is a way: you need at least 3 T-34/76 for each Tiger. If you have less that this you’re a dead man walking.

RaidR · Post by **RaidR** » Sat Jun 02, 2001 7:45 pm

I'm currently playing a soviet long WW2 campaign, and only came across one tiger platoon when playing a defence mission.

The tigers pretty much wasted every Kv-1 and T-34 tank in my core force, luckily I purchased a Kv-85mm platoon from my support points and even immobilized and eventually destroyed one of 5 the tigers.
:p

The main problem at destroying tigers with any 75 mm tank is that it has no real weak point.
The historical weak point of the tiger should be it's lower side hull with "only" 40 mm armor, but since SPwaw armor only has upper chassis and turret armor there is no exploiting this weak spot.
Trying to knock out a tiger with T-34's only is like knocking out a T-34 with a pzIII 37mm

btw. I actually won that defence mission because the AI surrendered, altough I had 4 katusha's (w/ ammo carrier), 4 x 120 mortars and 3 x 80 mm mortars firing at his infantery simultaniously he could still have won with about 3 pzIIIj's and 4 tigers left..perhaps a bug

steel · Post by **steel** » Sat Jun 02, 2001 10:56 pm

I just burried two t-34.They had no change shoot back to Tiger, When Tiger see them (10hex and front), it 50-80% accurate gunshots blow my first two courious T-34 to hell.

No change to win at all i think.If my tanks see a Tiger somewhere, it is same that looking at death to aye.

Was there in WW2 really Tiger vs T-34 fights, how do hell they manages it ?

My best strategy probably is bail out all screws and let them assault few Tigers and after that died in peace

Steel is coming back Tortefeasor

Thanks all for strategy advice.