Sub patrol zones

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Chuckycheese

a

b?

[rustysi]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Chuckycheese

a

b?

OK, c.[:D]

[Edward75]

Is there any difference, if you set submarine in Remain on station and set Patrol zone in hex?

[btd64]

ORIGINAL: Edward75

Is there any difference, if you set submarine in Remain on station and set Patrol zone in hex?

Yes, patrol zones will allow for automatic replenishment and remain on station won't....GP

[Edward75]

I mean. Is there any difference in attack or detection of enemy for submarine?

[bradfordkay]

Be careful about "patrol around hex" settings in areas with high ASW activity. The legs on each section of the patrol zone are so short that your sub will rarely lower its detection level, making it more vulnerable to attack and less likely to get off one of its own attacks. I prefer to set fairly long legged patrol zones along known shipping routes, thus bringing the sub into and out of high ASW patrol areas and keeping its detection level down.

[rustysi]

Is there any difference, if you set submarine in Remain on station and set Patrol zone in hex?

Absolutely. IIRC 'remain on station' will do just that and not attack. They will respond if attacked. Don't know why, but that's how I remember it. Vessels set to 'patrol' will engage.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Is there any difference, if you set submarine in Remain on station and set Patrol zone in hex?

Absolutely. IIRC 'remain on station' will do just that and not attack. They will respond if attacked. Don't know why, but that's how I remember it. Vessels set to 'patrol' will engage.

Remain on Station also overrides reaction and cancels it out.
Subs patrolling will react out of their patrol pattern to chase after a target.
Subs set to remain on station will never react.

Patrolling a one hex 'pattern' is always better than remaining on station or just sitting in place with no orders.


All of my 'port maintenance' ASW and Coastal Minewsweeping TFs get one hex patrol patterns set at the port they are maintaining.

[rustysi]

Thanks for the add Hans.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Be careful about "patrol around hex" settings in areas with high ASW activity. The legs on each section of the patrol zone are so short that your sub will rarely lower its detection level, making it more vulnerable to attack and less likely to get off one of its own attacks. I prefer to set fairly long legged patrol zones along known shipping routes, thus bringing the sub into and out of high ASW patrol areas and keeping its detection level down.

I think this depends on where exactly you click. If you wanted to set a patrol around Marcus Island and click on the island, you should get a patrol with the island itself at one corner of the three waypoint hexes. If you click one hex away from Marcus, you get a fairly tight patrol zone around Marcus. But if you click at about 4 or 5 hexes from Marcus, you should get a PZ with much longer legs. Been a while since I used that feature but that is how I recall it.

[bradfordkay]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Be careful about "patrol around hex" settings in areas with high ASW activity. The legs on each section of the patrol zone are so short that your sub will rarely lower its detection level, making it more vulnerable to attack and less likely to get off one of its own attacks. I prefer to set fairly long legged patrol zones along known shipping routes, thus bringing the sub into and out of high ASW patrol areas and keeping its detection level down.

I think this depends on where exactly you click. If you wanted to set a patrol around Marcus Island and click on the island, you should get a patrol with the island itself at one corner of the three waypoint hexes. If you click one hex away from Marcus, you get a fairly tight patrol zone around Marcus. But if you click at about 4 or 5 hexes from Marcus, you should get a PZ with much longer legs. Been a while since I used that feature but that is how I recall it.

I just experimented with this and found that my earlier experience still rings true. Setting "patrol around target" on an empty sea hex - no matter where it is (I chose hexes in the middle of the open ocean between Truk and Marcus, between Saipan and Formosa, as well as between Midway and Wake) resulted in legs only 3-4 hexes long. This is not long enough to take your sub our of ASW a/c patrol range and reduce the detection level, IMO.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Be careful about "patrol around hex" settings in areas with high ASW activity. The legs on each section of the patrol zone are so short that your sub will rarely lower its detection level, making it more vulnerable to attack and less likely to get off one of its own attacks. I prefer to set fairly long legged patrol zones along known shipping routes, thus bringing the sub into and out of high ASW patrol areas and keeping its detection level down.

I think this depends on where exactly you click. If you wanted to set a patrol around Marcus Island and click on the island, you should get a patrol with the island itself at one corner of the three waypoint hexes. If you click one hex away from Marcus, you get a fairly tight patrol zone around Marcus. But if you click at about 4 or 5 hexes from Marcus, you should get a PZ with much longer legs. Been a while since I used that feature but that is how I recall it.

I just experimented with this and found that my earlier experience still rings true. Setting "patrol around target" on an empty sea hex - no matter where it is (I chose hexes in the middle of the open ocean between Truk and Marcus, between Saipan and Formosa, as well as between Midway and Wake) resulted in legs only 3-4 hexes long. This is not long enough to take your sub our of ASW a/c patrol range and reduce the detection level, IMO.

Interesting. I never assessed it from that perspective. I too typically see 3-4 hex legs on patterns I allow the AI to establish. I will typically run with that unless it is a particularly bad pattern.

However, I often establish distinct patterns with hexes chosen by me for the opposite reason you do because i want a tighter pattern.

Another thing to be wary of is letting the AI establish the pattern close to straits or enemy ports with minefields.
I'm in August of '45 in my current game and have had plenty subs venture into dangerous waters. Sometimes because I didn't look closely at the pattern established and sometimes because they chase prey out of their patrol patterns into mined straits.

The game has so much variability and randomization that we will never be able to efficiently plan and order perfect patterns that are adhered to religiously. After all I want my sub commanders to chase prey, just not into some of the places they have chosen to venture. [:D]

[bradfordkay]

I like to run my sub patrols into particular high traffic straits and then back out of them (no lingering). I have had excellent success with patrols that run from Mili to the strait between Formosa and Batan Island, from that strait to the approaches to Kyoto or Hiroshima, from Surabaya through the strait near Balikpapan to just off Mindanao. Open water straits don't hold mines very long so, unless my opponent is heavily (consistently) mining them it is not much of a risk (keep in mind that mining open water hexes is dangerous to TFs from both sides, so he is risking his own ships in doing that).

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: Elessar2

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Human control always. The sub TF will try to return to port to replenish in a timely fashion, but sometimes waits too long, and subs cannot replenish at sea so if you don't have a friendly port that is closer, you may have a sub that is adrift at sea with little you can do about it. I don't let the AI do anything I can do myself, you need to keep an eye on your subs out there.

Hmm. So milk cows*/sub tenders can't do anything if they meet out in the open ocean, contingent on the above variable?

*Are these in fact modeled for this game?

Subs are the only ships that can neither refuel at sea or refuel another ship at sea. Sub tenders only do what they do in port.

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

I like to run my sub patrols into particular high traffic straits and then back out of them (no lingering). I have had excellent success with patrols that run from Mili to the strait between Formosa and Batan Island, from that strait to the approaches to Kyoto or Hiroshima, from Surabaya through the strait near Balikpapan to just off Mindanao. Open water straits don't hold mines very long so, unless my opponent is heavily (consistently) mining them it is not much of a risk (keep in mind that mining open water hexes is dangerous to TFs from both sides, so he is risking his own ships in doing that).

I always have at least three squadrons of ASW patrolling that area and perhaps more in training to boot. Please visit the strait between Formosa and Batan Island.

[geofflambert]

I will at the very least ding the paint job on your new sub.

[bradfordkay]

Well, that happens... but I was just shocked when I checked my losses. It is mid Feb '43 in my present game and I have lost 1 US and 3 Dutch subs. That's it... I have had several sent to the shipyards for considerable repair, but I am surprised at such low losses.

[LeeChard]

When you've set the patrol zone what is the consensus on the reaction setting?

[bradfordkay]

Subs can only be set to react one hex, and it is definitely worth doing (though I often forget to do so).

[MakeeLearn]

ORIGINAL: LeeChard

When you've set the patrol zone what is the consensus on the reaction setting?

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Subs can only be set to react one hex, and it is definitely worth doing (though I often forget to do so).

If you want to keep your subs from entering shallow water or ports set reaction to 0.