Soviets and China tips

[ThunderLizard11]

Playing Allies on Veteran and Soviets and China are getting crushed.

By summer '42, Soviets have lost Moscow, Leningrad and Stalingrad. Used engineers to build forts and upgraded infantry to level 1 with ant-air level 1. German tanks, and there's lots of them, slice through infantry like butter.

Similar result in China. Japan taken Chungking and on the way to interior.

Ideas and strategies appreciated.

[amandkm]

I've been having similar problems. I am currently in a game where I pushed Russian infantry to level 2, just in time for Barbarossa, and the Chinese to level 1. It slowed the advance, but I'm still getting my units picked off faster than I can replace them. I think I'm not yielding enough ground in Russia.

In China, I think I was too aggressive, trying to punch holes and pick off Japanese air units. There was a time when I thought I was going to get rolled up, but was able to stabilize things with a substantial flow of Indian units to relieve Chungking.

[timolang63]

I've only played two WAW games; in the first I conquered Russia (taking Perm) in September 1943. In 2d game as Allies v AI (normal settings), I was too slow on infantry research and got slaughtered by the AI, losing Perm in March 1944. I tried running away from the AI early, and taking a stand over winter (which worked) but Russian units could not stand against the AI in 1942 or 1943 and was eventually ground down.

Would be good if someone could post Russian strategy for survival against an aggressive AI or human.

[ThunderLizard11]

So I guess I'm not alone in this. The German troops seem OP compared to WiE.

[timolang63]

I've had more luck with the Chinese. They need to dig in, with HQs nearby, and get infantry research done ASAP. With that they can hold off the Japanese. I also built an arty and AA or two. If you're cautious and don't attack, you can rebuild faster than your losses.

[Kornstalx]

Infantry Tech needs some tweaks or balancing -- it's almost a must have no-brainer in every game you play, regardless of strategy. About the only Major that can forgo not rushing it is perhaps the US. Double-pumping that tech from the start is so routine it's like moving a pawn.

[Yogol]

What I do as Russians...

Turn 1.
Stop the research in Anti-Tank weapons, Production Technology and Industrial Technology.
Buy one chit of Infantry weapons.

Turn 2.
Buy another chit of Infantry weapons.

Turn 7 (if I recall correctly).
Buy a chit of Advanced tanks.

Turn when you get Infantry level 1.
Buy another chit of infantry weapons.

Turn when you get Advanced tanks level 1.
Buy another chit of infantry weapons.

Turn when you get Infantry level 2.
Sell your remaining chit of infantry weapons.


This way, you will have slightly less Russian troops in June 1941, but they will be much, much harder to kill.

With this strategy, even the front-cities (with the well entrenched level 2 armies and the all-important supporting HQs) will be a difficult target for the Germans.


Same for the UK, China and the US: make sure you got two chits in infantry weapons on turn 1
And for UK and China, make sure you buy a new chit when you get level 1 (this is not needed for the US, they'll get level 2 in time when you started with 2 chits).

[ThunderLizard11]

[/quote]

What I do as Russians...

Turn 1.
Stop the research in Anti-Tank weapons, Production Technology and Industrial Technology.
Buy one chit of Infantry weapons.

Turn 2.
Buy another chit of Infantry weapons.

Turn 7 (if I recall correctly).
Buy a chit of Advanced tanks.

Turn when you get Infantry level 1.
Buy another chit of infantry weapons.

Turn when you get Advanced tanks level 1.
Buy another chit of infantry weapons.

Turn when you get Infantry level 2.
Sell your remaining chit of infantry weapons.

This way, you will have slightly less Russian troops in June 1941, but they will be much, much harder to kill.

With this strategy, even the front-cities (with the well entrenched level 2 armies and the all-important supporting HQs) will be a difficult target for the Germans.

Same for the UK, China and the US: make sure you got two chits in infantry weapons on turn 1
And for UK and China, make sure you buy a new chit when you get level 1 (this is not needed for the US, they'll get level 2 in time when you started with 2 chits).

< Message edited by Yogol -- 1/25/2019 6:06:14 PM >

Thanks for the specific and useful advice. Somehow I missed these "opening" moves.

Do you suggests bring Russian units forward to the German border or having them hang back? In WiE, I usually brought forward to protect the HQs and planes that spawn right next to the German lines when war breaks out. Not sure what's best for WaW.

[Kornstalx]

Turn 1.
Stop the research in Anti-Tank weapons, Production Technology and Industrial Technology.
Buy one chit of Infantry weapons.

Turn 2.
Buy another chit of Infantry weapons.

After a dozen or so campaigns, this is definitely my single biggest gripe with the game. You should not feel pigeonholed into making the same exact opening decisions every game just because they are so optimal. There's currently a big balance issue around refunding starting techs and rushing Infantry Weapons for pretty much all Majors. Not doing this in multiplayer is almost guaranteed suicide. Something needs to be adjusted there. I've played a few personal games with tweaked rules like limiting the max chit investment on any tech to 1 (instead of 2), but I don't feel that's a proper solution.

Regardless, this game needs some serious balancing that concerns this optimal opening meta. It's totally discouraging me from wanting to start new games, it's so blatant.

[Pocus]

Somehow same here, there is no choice as there is only a single optimal choice, to pour everything you can for infantry 2, including selling others chits. I believe would be much better with infantry techs on 5 levels with each raising the stats by half the current value. Plus a bit of improvements in anti armor (for infantry) so they don't get mauled more than they are.

[Pocus]

As for defending Russia, in PBEM I have felt that USSR needed max convoy % from UK at all time to stand a chance.

[codem]

I am not encountering the same issue. The Russian and Chinese seem to replace units just as fast as I kill them. Russia also declared war on my early (didn't know about the 18 units event thing ).

I'm able to hold the Russians back for the moment, because I did a large scale invasion of Africa with German troops to help Italy. Currently pushing to South Africa... but now USA invaded North Africa, even though I had U-Boats screening the area, the AI seemed to know where they where and got around them.

And although I'm able to killed 2 to 3 Russian units a turn... there seems to be no end in their numbers. My German troops need rest as their readiness is being worn down but the constant fighting.. (either defending or attacking).

USA seems OP. Encountered at least 4 carriers in the Pacific with various ships for support. In the Atlantic, they had a large armanda of DD, BC, BBs escorting 7 transports (a mix of long and short range) If it wasn't for the few U-boats I had patrolling off of France... they would have landed a a massive force which would have been devastating . I got lucky in that detection.

[ThunderLizard11]

ORIGINAL: codem

I am not encountering the same issue. The Russian and Chinese seem to replace units just as fast as I kill them. Russia also declared war on my early (didn't know about the 18 units event thing ).

I'm able to hold the Russians back for the moment, because I did a large scale invasion of Africa with German troops to help Italy. Currently pushing to South Africa... but now USA invaded North Africa, even though I had U-Boats screening the area, the AI seemed to know where they where and got around them.

And although I'm able to killed 2 to 3 Russian units a turn... there seems to be no end in their numbers. My German troops need rest as their readiness is being worn down but the constant fighting.. (either defending or attacking).

USA seems OP. Encountered at least 4 carriers in the Pacific with various ships for support. In the Atlantic, they had a large armanda of DD, BC, BBs escorting 7 transports (a mix of long and short range) If it wasn't for the few U-boats I had patrolling off of France... they would have landed a a massive force which would have been devastating . I got lucky in that detection.

This thread is about playing as Allied as Russia not against them as Axis. It is true that the AI seems to have tons of units when you play as Axis but when you play as Allied not so much.

[ThunderLizard11]

ORIGINAL: Kornstalx

Turn 1.
Stop the research in Anti-Tank weapons, Production Technology and Industrial Technology.
Buy one chit of Infantry weapons.

Turn 2.
Buy another chit of Infantry weapons.

After a dozen or so campaigns, this is definitely my single biggest gripe with the game. You should not feel pigeonholed into making the same exact opening decisions every game just because they are so optimal. There's currently a big balance issue around refunding starting techs and rushing Infantry Weapons for pretty much all Majors. Not doing this in multiplayer is almost guaranteed suicide. Something needs to be adjusted there. I've played a few personal games with tweaked rules like limiting the max chit investment on any tech to 1 (instead of 2), but I don't feel that's a proper solution.

Regardless, this game needs some serious balancing that concerns this optimal opening meta. It's totally discouraging me from wanting to start new games, it's so blatant.

Still not getting past October '43 before Russia is no more. What are people doing as Russia past the opening moves?

[elxaime]

ORIGINAL: Kornstalx

Turn 1.
Stop the research in Anti-Tank weapons, Production Technology and Industrial Technology.
Buy one chit of Infantry weapons.

Turn 2.
Buy another chit of Infantry weapons.

After about a dozen campaigns, I have to agree on feeling pigeonholed to do the exact same thing research wise in PBEM. Regardless of which country you play, you need to get maximum research in infantry. Then hope the Gods of luck are on your side for research breakthroughs.

[ThunderLizard11]

ORIGINAL: elxaime


After about a dozen campaigns, I have to agree on feeling pigeonholed to do the exact same thing research wise in PBEM. Regardless of which country you play, you need to get maximum research in infantry. Then hope the Gods of luck are on your side for research breakthroughs.

I'm in SP and tried a bunch of stuff but Germany still seems way to OP compared to WiE. Even with a '43 Overlord - Russian are still toast. I'm missing something. Last game I pulled back all units and of course all the units that spawn on the border are instantly gone. Is there a way to have them deploy further back so they're not annihilated in one turn.

[Uxbridge]

Blimey, this was new. I thought the only effect of placing two chits on the same development, was that the second took up after the first was triggered – not much use, that is. What you're saying is that they work in tandem, with the results of the two accumulated?

[Kornstalx]

ORIGINAL: Uxbridge

Blimey, this was new. I thought the only effect of placing two chits on the same development, was that the second took up after the first was triggered – not much use, that is. What you're saying is that they work in tandem, with the results of the two accumulated?

Yes they work together. More chits == faster development. Note this is also why you can put 2 chits in a max-level 1 tech like armored warefare. It's twice the gain and when you finish you can refund the extra chit.

Basically get it twice as fast for 50MPP. This whole system needs some balancing.

[ThunderLizard11]

ORIGINAL: Kornstalx

ORIGINAL: Uxbridge

Blimey, this was new. I thought the only effect of placing two chits on the same development, was that the second took up after the first was triggered – not much use, that is. What you're saying is that they work in tandem, with the results of the two accumulated?

Yes they work together. More chits == faster development. Note this is also why you can put 2 chits in a max-level 1 tech like armored warefare. It's twice the gain and when you finish you can refund the extra chit.

Basically get it twice as fast for 50MPP. This whole system needs some balancing.

Yeah I did this and it helped for China v. Japan but Soviets v. Germany not so much. Still getting knocked out by fall '43 and game over.

[Mithrilotter]

There used to be a single Research Chit limit to certain critical Techs like Infantry Weapons. I preferred that restriction. But that was changed in beta testing for reasons that I didn't understand.