Extreme usage of AA guns in surface combat.

[tabpub]

First off, I have to say that I did search for something on this subject, but all I could find was some year old threads talking about torpedo usage.
Second, I have just started to play this recently, with around 2 scenarios under my belt and they were air combat based ones.

Here is the excerpt from the battle report and my following description:

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 10/30/42

Weather: Thunderstorms

Night Time Surface Combat, near Lunga at 38,40

Japanese Ships
BB Hiei, Shell hits 9
BB Kirishima, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CA Chokai, Shell hits 2
CL Nagara, Shell hits 2
DD Yudachi, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
DD Samidare, Shell hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
DD Harusame, Shell hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
DD Umikaze
DD Fumizuki, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
CL Helena, Shell hits 13, and is sunk
DD Morris, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Benham, Shell hits 13, on fire, heavy damage
DD Maury, Shell hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
DD Mahan, Shell hits 15, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Conyngham, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Shaw, Shell hits 15, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Cushing, Shell hits 72, and is sunk
DD Smith, Shell hits 2
APD Manley
AV Ballard
AP George Clymer
AP Henry T. Allen
AK Alchiba
AK Algorab
AP Harris
AK Crater
AK Arided
AK Carina


As I remember the opening ranges here were 5k yards, dropping to 2k and then extending to 9k before break off. The extreme amount of hits on the one American destroyer were done by 25 and 13mm shells fired from 1 Japanese DD in one round. There were one or two others like this, but not to this degree. I did not notice the Americans using any 20 or 40mm during that time. Additionally, I noted that there were quite a few hit descriptions that not only had these small AA weapons penetrating, but also causing "severe" and "critical" hits.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Lunga at 38,40

Japanese Ships
BB Hiei
BB Kirishima, on fire
CA Chokai, Shell hits 3
CL Nagara
DD Yudachi, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
DD Samidare, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
DD Harusame, on fire, heavy damage
DD Umikaze
DD Fumizuki, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
PT 38
PT 46
PT 48, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
PT 112
PT 123, Shell hits 38, on fire, heavy damage
PT 124
PT 142
PT 143

And here we have the departing Japanese force stumbling over some Pt's that were "surprised". The one that only had single digit hits was the victim of 14" gunfire. But the other was shredded by 5.5 and 3 inch from the CL. I would have thought that amount of firepower would have sank it right then, but it was only reported sunk in the following phase report.

So, I guess my point is this: are these "typical" results from night combats? During the amount of time it took the Japanese DD to fire all the rounds into the American DD in the first example, I could have made an omlette, eaten it and washed the dishes! And the combat report setting is at 1 or 1.5 seconds.

[mariovalleemtl]

PT 123, Shell hits 38, on fire, heavy damage

I also notice those extreme results MANY time. I don't know WHY those hits are not SPREAD on a better ways between differents ships.

Help ?!?

[Mr.Frag]

Fairly simple explanation:

Only one of them was in range to fire on so it took every shot from all the ships firing. Quite common when fighting in the dark.

Just because it is there on the screen doesn't mean you can target it.

[mariovalleemtl]

but it's happen most of the time... ?

[tabpub]

Originally posted by Mr.Frag
Fairly simple explanation:

Only one of them was in range to fire on so it took every shot from all the ships firing. Quite common when fighting in the dark.

Just because it is there on the screen doesn't mean you can target it.

I wouldn't have a problem with that, but that is NOT what happened. In both instances, the ship that took the extraordinary amounts of hits were PRIMARILY (over 80%) caused by ONE ship. The US DD was hit mainly by 25 and 13mm fire; the PT by ONE CL with 5.5 and 3" guns. The routine was "stuck" on these firing ships for between 2-4 MINUTES. It felt like Neo in the Matrix.

[bilbow]

Some of the earlier versions of UV did do this repetitive "loop", but I haven't seen it since 2.3. What version are you running?

[tabpub]

2.30 is the version. The question is not only the repetitive shots, but the fact that the Japanese were using light AA and getting what appeared to be penetrating hit damage from them. And the fact that no American light AA appeared to counter fire. Now, the PT's did fire their 20mm, but that is their main/only gun.

[crsutton]

Best source is to read about the two naval battles of Guadacanal. Confusion reigned. Some ships fired their guns a lot, some failed to indentify targets and shot a little. Torpedoes filled the water and burning ships tended to get the most attention, while other excellent targets were missed or ignored. The Atlanta was most likely shot up by friendly fire. The action was close and AA guns were used as well as all others. I think the game does an excellent job of mirroring actual night surface combat. To tell the truth, Japanese or Allied, superiority or not, I never go into a surface battle thinking I am going to win, or that I have any idea what is going to happen. Its great!

[Mundy]

Pulling out my old copy of Jack Coggins' The Campaign for Guadalcanal, The destroyer, Laffey, cut loose on the Hiei, killing its captain, and wounding Adm. Abe. Of course she didn't last long enough to savor her handiwork, once the 14 inchers took aim...