The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Obvert,

Can you check your kamikazes and see which frames carry the SAP or AP bomb load?

Will a torpedo bomber on kamikaze use the 250gp or the 250sap? If a normal torpedo bomber carries the gp, what would the Grace carry as a kamikaze?

I am guessing any bomb load 60kg and smaller uses a gp as in stock there is no SAP at those levels.

Is the switch to SAP or AP automatic for naval and kamikaze strikes, or is it somehow restricted by plane. I can't tell.

I know the 800kg is a hardcoded variable replacement for the torpedo on port strikes.

Is there a random chance there is no SAP available?

From Alfred's hints at kami "bomb loads" earlier I don't think it matters. I think now that kamis hit and have a standard damage by plane type. So the kati-designed planes might have a higher damage than earlier DBs, and any 2E bomber has the same damage base to be modified by rolls.

I don't think kamis get granular with bomb size let alone bomb type.

One indication of this would be some players mentioning how good their recon Judys are as kamis. No bomb, but still a boom.

A little while back, there was a discussion on Kamikazes. Alfred chimed in, and basically, there are 4 important stats:

Pilot Quality
Air Speed
Maneuverability
Durability

Nothing about bombs. That's not to say they don't help, but they're not one of the four important factors. I've come to the conclusion that I'll use everything available in the inventory and focus on Pilot Quality. My current goal is 40+ experience and 60+ LowN.

Edit: It was in my AAR several pages back, if you're interested. Also, I chose 40+/60+ because it was easy to attain.

[Mike Solli]

Here's the post:

A good kamikaze plane is a plane which can evade Allied CAP and flak.

The theoretical amount of damage which a kamikaze plane can inflict is totally beyond the capacity of the player to determine. What the player should focus on is getting a hit from his kamikaze plane. What follows from a kamikaze hit is a narrow range of inputs into the algorithm.

To get the individual kamikaze plane through focus on:

pilot quality
airspeed
manoeuvrability
durability

To maximise the effectiveness of the attack, good "ablative armour" in the form of good and plentiful escorts plus intelligent approach vectors, are essential.

Alfred

[Lowpe]

Mike,

I did read those when they came out, but I was primarily interested in figuring out which IJ planes carry SAP or AP bombs when on naval strike missions -- and the only where they show up in the plane detail screen when the unit is on a kamikaze strike. They don't show up on normal units when on naval strike.

I do know that the Lilly DB uses SAP bombs to great effect. So it is not an Army Navy thing.

So, I am left wondering if the SAP or GP bomb choice is much like the 800kg bomb choice when TB strike naval ports. I.E. hard coded. Or is it based on plane model? Or is it variable based on supply, hq, leadership, dl,? I don't think it is runway size since the I have used the Lilly IIb out of size 2 runways and it used the SAP.

So, then in addition and to make it worthwhile for this particular AAR and the readers, I got to thinking if a kamikaze would be better off with a SAP loadout? Because some kamikaze planes have the SAP or AP and some do not...at least according to the plane detail sheet and my particular use of kamikazes four years ago.

I think you should spend the time now to train up your first batch of kamikazes with high defense and get experience as high as possible too. You can only create a new kamikaze unit with low experience pilots, but then you can transfer in the high experience guys once created. On warships Allied flak in 44+ is just an absolute killer, and the high defense means more planes might get thru.

If you start the game with a few IDA squadrons cranking out excellent kamikaze pilots then 70 LowNav, 70 defense is doable to start. Let that first taste of the divine wind be something memorable.

[Mike Solli]

Interesting comments, Lowpe. I have absolutely no experience with Kamikazes. Never even seen one in the game (yet), but that day is coming. High LowN and Def in an armored, high durability bomber might do some damage.

Sorry for the hijack, obvert.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Interesting comments, Lowpe. I have absolutely no experience with Kamikazes. Never even seen one in the game (yet), but that day is coming. High LowN and Def in an armored, high durability bomber might do some damage.

Sorry for the hijack, obvert.

Hijack? [:D]

You guys are talking though my dilemmas here! How to get through the big blue blanket and the porcupine flak wall to hit a ship?

[adarbrauner]

Hi Obvert I'm thrilled by the Norms strike. No losses, no intercept?

Altitude low, late detection (but 40 miles detection isn't THAT low either...).

But no intercept at all?!

And Why only 50 Hellcats as CAP?

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

Hi Obvert I'm thrilled by the Norms strike. No losses, no intercept?

Altitude low, late detection (but 40 miles detection isn't THAT low either...).

But no intercept at all?!

And Why only 50 Hellcats as CAP?

Probably only a few CVE in this part of the mob of ships and possibly only a few groups on extended range CAP. So far Canoe has used mostly very close CAP coverage, so it's sometimes possible to bleed the edges.

[adarbrauner]

Well I guess the small package Played a role as well in a very delayed or failed detection. BUT still the report says (well i should not see that as the attacking side, but this is another issue) 40 miles, which isn't a lot, but enough to try at least to intercept the Norms?

[obvert]

[font="Times New Roman"]April 28, 1945[/font]

---

Some night strikes. The Kates make a contact but of course it's another small fry.
[font="Trebuchet MS"][/font]
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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR April 28, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Air attack on TF, near Chichi-jima at 114,73

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 10 NM, estimated altitude 4,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
LCI(R)-643
LCI(G)-450
LCI(G)-439, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 1000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on TF, near Chichi-jima at 115,73

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 36 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
LSM-50
LSM-377

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on TF, near Chichi-jima at 115,73

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 31 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
LSM-55
LSM-50

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/color][/font]

[Lowpe]

Iwo Jima??

I think the Allies need to be much closer, but heck what do I know. I can't fathom Korea or Formosa or Luzon doesn't leave much else, does it?

How the Allies could take those bases north of Honshu, and not be bombing your fighter, nf and engine production as a priority is beyond me anyhow.

Keep plinking. Use those Norms on night naval attack at 1K...lots of bombs. The torpedo bombers might go in higher to avoid that first wall of flak.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Iwo Jima??

I think the Allies need to be much closer, but heck what do I know. I can't fathom Korea or Formosa or Luzon doesn't leave much else, does it?

How the Allies could take those bases north of Honshu, and not be bombing your fighter, nf and engine production as a priority is beyond me anyhow.

Keep plinking. Use those Norms on night naval attack at 1K...lots of bombs. The torpedo bombers might go in higher to avoid that first wall of flak.

I had to fly in a few more troops to make sure the Bonins were ready, but I was pretty convinced he wouldn't go there. Now, it's interesting there will be so many viable bases to strike at any Allied movement through here in future. He's going deep, and although it'll probably work, can I pick off enough VPs to work for me too?

My new odds:

Ryukyus/Amami Oshima - 2:1 (as a strategic stop for LOC and sweeping Home Islands)
Korea/Manchuria Western Coast - 3:1 (as major destination with a big troop concentration)
NE China Coastline 5:1 (Why not? It's impossible to defend)
Formosa - 4:1
Indochina - 5:1 (Specifically Hue & Vinh. Far from the Home Islands, but consistently reconned and he might think he can trap the Burma Army there)
PI - 8:1 (Easy pickings, but kind of a point grab with little else to offer at this point)
Kyushu - 20:1 (Odds going down here).

[Lowpe]

Kamikaze Findings:

Tested some kamikaze usage in Downfall, head to head.

1. Some Kamikaze planes carry SAP or AP bomb loads. They do superior damage to the GP bombs.

2. I have found the following planes on Kamikaze to carry SAP or AP bombs: Peggy(t), Nell, Betty, Frances, Grace, Jill, Kate.

3. I have not found a plane that carries the 800 AP on Kamikaze attacks. So, Val, Judy, are best left as pure divebombers to use the SAP.

4. on the plane detail screen for the dedicated kamikazes (ex. toka) it shows them carrying the AP, but in practice they don't and use GP instead. Same with the Zero FB models.

5. To get the OHKA missile to fly all of the time, make the Betty2E a kamikaze unit and it will launch as long as there is supply in the pools.

6. I cannot find any plane that carries the 500kg SAP.

7. Against non warships, all planes are valid kamikazes. But against armored warships you need penetration. A Helen carrying 4 gp 250kg bombs does on average 4 system points to a 21 knot ww1 American battleship. A Kate carrying two 250kg SAP did 13 system damage.

So some guidelines: the Grace and Jill are probably the best singe engine non dedicated kamikaze available carrying 2 SAP bombs; an armored mb like the Peggy T, Betty, Frances probably make the best 2E kamikaze. The dedicated kamikaze carrying the 800kg GP is strong enough to make it worthwhile.

ran out of time...more later. cheers.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Kamikaze Findings:

Tested some kamikaze usage in Downfall, head to head.

1. Some Kamikaze planes carry SAP or AP bomb loads. They do superior damage to the GP bombs.

2. I have found the following planes on Kamikaze to carry SAP or AP bombs: Peggy(t), Nell, Betty, Frances, Grace, Jill, Kate.

3. I have not found a plane that carries the 800 AP on Kamikaze attacks. So, Val, Judy, are best left as pure divebombers to use the SAP.

4. on the plane detail screen for the dedicated kamikazes (ex. toka) it shows them carrying the AP, but in practice they don't and use GP instead. Same with the Zero FB models.

5. To get the OHKA missile to fly all of the time, make the Betty2E a kamikaze unit and it will launch as long as there is supply in the pools.

6. I cannot find any plane that carries the 500kg SAP.

7. Against non warships, all planes are valid kamikazes. But against armored warships you need penetration. A Helen carrying 4 gp 250kg bombs does on average 4 system points to a 21 knot ww1 American battleship. A Kate carrying two 250kg SAP did 13 system damage.

So some guidelines: the Grace and Jill are probably the best singe engine non dedicated kamikaze available carrying 2 SAP bombs; an armored mb like the Peggy T, Betty, Frances probably make the best 2E kamikaze. The dedicated kamikaze carrying the 800kg GP is strong enough to make it worthwhile.

ran out of time...more later. cheers.

Nice findings! That sums up how I have felt from usage in general, except on the Toka. I find the short range, very low durability and lack of armour prohibitive. Although it's certainly better than the bi-plane trainers, so if you plan to use the big late training groups fro kamis, those make a lot of sense. I didn't choose to make them this game as I wanted to try the Patsy. (Does it carry AP?). Now I'm too short on Ha-43 engines to make the Patsy, so I'll have to see how that works in a few months assuming I still have factories.

I would be most interested in how kamis do against flattops though. Any findings there?

[obvert]

[font="Times New Roman"]April 28, 1945[/font]

---

Also on the 28th the Allies went big in strat bombing two bases. Neither was a completely comfortable experience for them, but one was a disaster.

At night the B-29B made it's first appearance over Hammatsu. A lot of my NF from various nearby bases vectored in to take a look. On the night they registered only a few scattered manpower hits and no damage, losing about 25-30 airframes. [&o]

The other strike was a daylight raid at Iwaki. Fighter losses were about 1:1 and heavy for both sides. The B-29s made it through though to hit resources.
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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR April 28, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Air attack on Hamamatsu , at 111,61

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 75 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-Sa Irving x 28
P1Y2-S Frances x 12
Ki-45 KAId Nick x 20
Ki-46-III KAI Dinah x 6

Allied aircraft
B-29B Superfort x 28

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-29B Superfort: 12 damaged
B-29B Superfort: 1 destroyed by flak

Manpower hits 3
Fires 795

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 12000 feet
City Attack: 36 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Hamamatsu , at 111,61

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 11 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-Sa Irving x 24
P1Y2-S Frances x 9
Ki-45 KAId Nick x 16
Ki-46-III KAI Dinah x 6

Allied aircraft
B-29B Superfort x 8

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-29B Superfort: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged
B-29B Superfort: 1 destroyed by flak

Manpower hits 1
Fires 2900

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 12000 feet
City Attack: 36 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Hamamatsu , at 111,61

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 42 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-Sa Irving x 23
P1Y2-S Frances x 7
Ki-45 KAId Nick x 16
Ki-46-III KAI Dinah x 6

Allied aircraft
B-29B Superfort x 5

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-29B Superfort: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 12000 feet
City Attack: 36 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Hamamatsu , at 111,61

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 15 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-Sa Irving x 18
P1Y2-S Frances x 6
Ki-45 KAId Nick x 13
Ki-46-III KAI Dinah x 3

Allied aircraft
B-29B Superfort x 7

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-29B Superfort: 5 damaged
B-29B Superfort: 1 destroyed by flak

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 12000 feet
City Attack: 36 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Hamamatsu , at 111,61

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 29 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-Sa Irving x 17
P1Y2-S Frances x 3
Ki-45 KAId Nick x 12
Ki-46-III KAI Dinah x 3

Allied aircraft
B-29B Superfort x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-29B Superfort: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 12000 feet
City Attack: 36 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Kushiro , at 123,53

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 15 NM, estimated altitude 42,370 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 33

Allied aircraft
F6F-5 Hellcat x 32

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-5 Hellcat: 12 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x N1K5-J George sweeping at 39370 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Iwaki , at 116,59

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 11 NM, estimated altitude 22,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 43
Ki-84r Frank x 75
Ki-100-II Tony x 49
Ki-102b Randy x 16

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 21

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 4 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 2 destroyed
Ki-100-II Tony: 2 destroyed
Ki-102b Randy: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 7 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Iwaki , at 116,59

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 41 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 29
Ki-84r Frank x 65
Ki-100-II Tony x 40
Ki-102b Randy x 12

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 2 destroyed
Ki-102b Randy: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-51D Mustang: 2 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Iwaki , at 116,59

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 26 NM, estimated altitude 22,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 14
Ki-84r Frank x 40
Ki-100-II Tony x 19
Ki-102b Randy x 6

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 22

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 2 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-II Tony: 1 destroyed
Ki-102b Randy: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-51D Mustang: 4 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x P-51D Mustang sweeping at 20000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Iwaki , at 116,59

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 75 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-84r Frank x 8
Ki-100-II Tony x 7
Ki-102b Randy x 1

Allied aircraft
B-29-25 Superfort x 47
P-38L Lightning x 25

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-25 Superfort: 14 damaged
B-29-25 Superfort: 1 destroyed by flak
P-38L Lightning: 1 destroyed

Resources hits 76

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Truk , at 112,108

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 9
B-24D1 Liberator x 2

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 4 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 2 destroyed by flak

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 11000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/color][/font]

[adarbrauner]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Kamikaze Findings:

Tested some kamikaze usage in Downfall, head to head.

1. Some Kamikaze planes carry SAP or AP bomb loads. They do superior damage to the GP bombs.

2. I have found the following planes on Kamikaze to carry SAP or AP bombs: Peggy(t), Nell, Betty, Frances, Grace, Jill, Kate.

3. I have not found a plane that carries the 800 AP on Kamikaze attacks. So, Val, Judy, are best left as pure divebombers to use the SAP.

4. on the plane detail screen for the dedicated kamikazes (ex. toka) it shows them carrying the AP, but in practice they don't and use GP instead. Same with the Zero FB models.

5. To get the OHKA missile to fly all of the time, make the Betty2E a kamikaze unit and it will launch as long as there is supply in the pools.

6. I cannot find any plane that carries the 500kg SAP.

7. Against non warships, all planes are valid kamikazes. But against armored warships you need penetration. A Helen carrying 4 gp 250kg bombs does on average 4 system points to a 21 knot ww1 American battleship. A Kate carrying two 250kg SAP did 13 system damage.

So some guidelines: the Grace and Jill are probably the best singe engine non dedicated kamikaze available carrying 2 SAP bombs; an armored mb like the Peggy T, Betty, Frances probably make the best 2E kamikaze. The dedicated kamikaze carrying the 800kg GP is strong enough to make it worthwhile.

ran out of time...more later. cheers.

You should really open a thread on the war room on this?

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Kamikaze Findings:

Tested some kamikaze usage in Downfall, head to head.

3. I have not found a plane that carries the 800 AP on Kamikaze attacks. So, Val, Judy, are best left as pure divebombers to use the SAP.

6. I cannot find any plane that carries the 500kg SAP.

What about the D4Y4 Judy (or any other model of Judy at normal range for #6)?

[obvert]

[font="Times New Roman"]April 29, 1945[/font]

---

Something must have held up the mob around the Bonins as very little progress is made today for the Allies. Or else they're changing tack and going in. There are some vulnerable bases around South of Tokyo too that I have to watch out for him rushing in to invade.

A lot of troops have now made it to Kyushu. I'll beef up Moppo by sea and send other troops in strat mode to the rail lines to move on. Some small units are moving to cover every open non-base hex on the Korean peninsula and up to around Port Arthur. If he does come that way I'll try to assess which base is targeted and then rail in a pile of troops to that one and nearby bases a day or two before landing. Gunzan though will get a stack immediately.

I think he needs a port to replenish BB main guns, right? That can't be done by AKE on the open water. Right?

I'm now wondering whether Port Arthur might be high on his list. A level 9 port with repair yard and isolated. Of course Shanghai would be great for him too, and landing at nearby bases wouldn't be much of a challenge. Of course up river is completely vulnerable. So many kind of cool options I've not seen anyone try here. Very curious now.

My Burma army is making good time and the chasing Allies pose no threat immediately. Everything will rail out of Bangkok immediately.

Subs have another good day for the Allies.
[font="Trebuchet MS"][/font]
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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR April 29, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sub attack near Cam Ranh Bay at 66,75

Japanese Ships
E Saga
TK Toa Maru
TK Rikko Maru
TK Gen'yo Maru
E Aotaka
E Hatsutaka

Allied Ships
SS Harder, hits 2

SS Harder launches 6 torpedoes at E Saga

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Busuanga at 76,81

Japanese Ships
xAK Hokko Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
xAK Ada Maru
xAK Tonegawa Maru
PB Hinode Maru #20

Allied Ships
SS Haddo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Balabac at 68,82

Japanese Ships
AK Hokuroku Maru, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage
AK Nankai Maru
xAP Palau Maru
xAP Kamo Maru
E Nasami

Allied Ships
SS Toro

SS Toro launches 6 torpedoes at AK Hokuroku Maru
Toro diving deep ....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Busuanga at 76,81

Japanese Ships
xAK Hokko Maru, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Haddo

xAK Hokko Maru is sighted by SS Haddo
Massive explosion on xAK Hokko Maru
SS Haddo launches 6 torpedoes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Truk , at 112,108

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 8
B-24D1 Liberator x 2

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 5 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 damaged

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 7

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 11000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/color][/font]
All kinds of bases on the Chinese coastline all the way down to Foochow being reconned.

[adarbrauner]

Aren't you taking advantage of the situation and sweeping in the North?

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Kamikaze Findings:

Tested some kamikaze usage in Downfall, head to head.

3. I have not found a plane that carries the 800 AP on Kamikaze attacks. So, Val, Judy, are best left as pure divebombers to use the SAP.

6. I cannot find any plane that carries the 500kg SAP.

What about the D4Y4 Judy (or any other model of Judy at normal range for #6)?

Nope, only carries the gp, or the chance of carrying the AP is quite small or I haven't met the triggers (hard to see that, big runway, air hq, plentiful supplies, torpedoes present, etc.).

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Kamikaze Findings:

Tested some kamikaze usage in Downfall, head to head.

1. Some Kamikaze planes carry SAP or AP bomb loads. They do superior damage to the GP bombs.

2. I have found the following planes on Kamikaze to carry SAP or AP bombs: Peggy(t), Nell, Betty, Frances, Grace, Jill, Kate.

3. I have not found a plane that carries the 800 AP on Kamikaze attacks. So, Val, Judy, are best left as pure divebombers to use the SAP.

4. on the plane detail screen for the dedicated kamikazes (ex. toka) it shows them carrying the AP, but in practice they don't and use GP instead. Same with the Zero FB models.

5. To get the OHKA missile to fly all of the time, make the Betty2E a kamikaze unit and it will launch as long as there is supply in the pools.

6. I cannot find any plane that carries the 500kg SAP.

7. Against non warships, all planes are valid kamikazes. But against armored warships you need penetration. A Helen carrying 4 gp 250kg bombs does on average 4 system points to a 21 knot ww1 American battleship. A Kate carrying two 250kg SAP did 13 system damage.

So some guidelines: the Grace and Jill are probably the best singe engine non dedicated kamikaze available carrying 2 SAP bombs; an armored mb like the Peggy T, Betty, Frances probably make the best 2E kamikaze. The dedicated kamikaze carrying the 800kg GP is strong enough to make it worthwhile.

ran out of time...more later. cheers.

You should really open a thread on the war room on this?

Findings aren't ready for prime time yet, but among friends here it is ok.[:)]