GA statistical musings

[GetAssista]

A small test I did for the air supply transport concludes that:

1. Air supply mission between bases requires both airfields to be open, that is damage to runway <= 20+(Airfield Size *5). Otherwise, supply mission would not fly at all.
2. Air supply mission to non-base hex (presumably paradrop of supply) transports 1/2 of amount transported in case 1.

Bombers behave the same way as transport plane when on supply mission, all results hold for them too.

[Yaab]

Supplies will be delivered if the receiving airfield has 100% service and runway damage.

Here is my own mini-test:

See post 48

tm.asp?m=3836195&mpage=2&key=

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Supplies will be delivered if the receiving airfield has 100% service and runway damage.

Here is my own mini-test:

See post 48

tm.asp?m=3836195&mpage=2&key=

I think this is important...
No message during AIR TRANSPORT PHASE about supplies being flown or dropped.


I was pretty sure I could deliver supplies to bombed out runways with bombers...although I never checked op report, only to see the wear and tear on my bombers when I selected them.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Supplies will be delivered if the receiving airfield has 100% service and runway damage.

Here is my own mini-test:

See post 48

tm.asp?m=3836195&mpage=2&key=

I think this is important...
No message during AIR TRANSPORT PHASE about supplies being flown or dropped.


I was pretty sure I could deliver supplies to bombed out runways with bombers...although I never checked op report, only to see the wear and tear on my bombers when I selected them.

In PBEM (and presumably head to head), you don't get this message during the replay. It is in the ops report only.

Against AI, I think you do get this message when things are being flown but it's been ages since I played a game against AI.

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: Yaab
Supplies will be delivered if the receiving airfield has 100% service and runway damage.

Here is my own mini-test:

See post 48

tm.asp?m=3836195&mpage=2&key=

They are not delivered in my test. At all.
I do not look through messages, I look for the supply level in the empty base.

Basically, we run exactly the same test. I did mine on Guadalcanal map (database from cleaned up GC scenario) using Tabby transports and Nell bombers, and flew from Japanese Townsville to Japanese Horn island. When there was no base on Horn island, just an LCU, supply level of the LCU increased. When there was sufficiently damaged empty base - nothing was transported for many turns including starting one when all aviation always flies. I wonder what gives

[Lowpe]

Everybody running off the same Beta Patch?

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Everybody running off the same Beta Patch?

1.8.11.26b here

Interesting byproduct of me rerunning the tests (yeah, results are the same as they were before) is that 0 size airfield is still counted as suitable for transports [:D]. They transport supply fine into it but stop flying when this nonexistent airfield is assigned damage in the editor

Also, damage to the destination services does not matter for the transports. It is only the runway

[Lokasenna]

This is beginning to seem like an oversight/minor bug.

[GetAssista]

Just a minitest to see if kamikaze bombload matters. It does.
But those big bombs are darn hard to detonate on impact [:)] 20+ kami hits every time yet damage from 800kg is not always there for the ships that were hit



First turn of the head-2-head scenario. Surface TF of 8 old BBs at range 0, lit up by extensive navsearch. Frank-a edited to have 2x800kg bombs halfway through. Same pilots and everything else throughout, you get the drill by now )

Also, I moved around pieces of picture with damage digits halfway through the editing, so do not fret about BB speed being OK while obviously heavily damaged in the lower table Those speeds refer to 2nd battle with 250 bombs. Not that speed matters anyway

[Lowpe]

Yeah, that was my guess..that penetration matters with kamikazes against certain ship types.

I suspect a test against merchant shipping either way would be deadly though.

Was it the GP bomb or the AP?

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Was it the GP bomb or the AP?

There is only one 800kg bomb in stock (device 1883), and it is GP with 113mm penetration.
E.g. Japanese 500kg GP/SAP have 92/112mm, so not that big a difference.

Of those test BBs most have 108mm deck armor except Nevada/Oklahoma (140mm) and Pennsylvania/Arizona (133mm), if compared with 800kg penetration of 113mm. Nevada got sunk once anyway

[Lowpe]

Nah, it exists in stock too, at least in Downfall. I remember there being screwy things with attempting to use the editor and it...it was hardcoded somehow, but perhaps that was just on port strikes.

Penetration 170; effect 1200 in normal stock just checked scenario 10 (ironman..tracker info).

[mind_messing]

What was the cause of sinking?

Was it due to flt damage associated with bombs penetrating the armour or were they abandoned due to fires?

Also was there the occurrence of the "penetrating hit" message during the replay that was present for one bomb type and no the other?

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Nah, it exists in stock too, at least in Downfall. I remember there being screwy things with attempting to use the editor and it...it was hardcoded somehow, but perhaps that was just on port strikes.

Stock 1 Ki-115 has 800kg GP bomb (device 1883). Downfall is different, and Ironman too maybe

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
What was the cause of sinking?
Was it due to flt damage associated with bombs penetrating the armour or were they abandoned due to fires?
Also was there the occurrence of the "penetrating hit" message during the replay that was present for one bomb type and no the other?

I did not watch the animations, would take too much time for my liking. Assume either penetrating magazine hit (most probable) or accumulated flotation.
Ships are not abandoned due to fires, but due to accumulated fire system damage. And as you can see system damage was not dangerously high for surviving ships.

[Lowpe]

It does exist in stock 1, just ran a turn...and 800 kg ap bombs dropped. It is a funny animal, in that the default load for Toka (and her clone) is the 800kg GP, but put a unit on kamikaze strike and it changes to the AP version, as pictured earlier...which is the only place I have managed to find it too, btw, some units set to kamikaze strike will switch to the AP or SAP but not all plane models.

The B5N2 loads a 250 SAP for example as a Kamikaze for example, but Helens run with gp.

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
It does exist in stock 1, just ran a turn...and 800 kg ap bombs dropped. It is a funny animal, in that the default load for Toka (and her clone) is the 800kg GP, but put a unit on kamikaze strike and it changes to the AP version, as pictured earlier...which is the only place I have managed to find it too, btw, some units set to kamikaze strike will switch to the AP or SAP but not all plane models.

The B5N2 loads a 250 SAP for example as a Kamikaze for example, but Helens run with gp.

Yup, found it, device 209

Run some more turns for 800kg version with combat animations. 3/3 used 800 GP bomb, with 80 xp pilots flying range 0 from 10 level airbase with air HQ. Not so easy to make them choose AP if at all possible for IJAF.
Have seen 90+ system damage too, as well as magazine explosions. Predictably it is *deck armor penetration* that is followed by nasty stuff.

[PaxMondo]

if you look at the raw data file, you can see the substituting device. so 800gp (1883) and 800ap (209). you have to look at the file, you can't see it in the editor.

[Yaab]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: Yaab
Supplies will be delivered if the receiving airfield has 100% service and runway damage.

Here is my own mini-test:

See post 48

tm.asp?m=3836195&mpage=2&key=

They are not delivered in my test. At all.
I do not look through messages, I look for the supply level in the empty base.

Basically, we run exactly the same test. I did mine on Guadalcanal map (database from cleaned up GC scenario) using Tabby transports and Nell bombers, and flew from Japanese Townsville to Japanese Horn island. When there was no base on Horn island, just an LCU, supply level of the LCU increased. When there was sufficiently damaged empty base - nothing was transported for many turns including starting one when all aviation always flies. I wonder what gives

Sorry, I think I caused a misunderstandment of sorts.

My test involved transports flying from an UDAMAGED airfield to an airfield with 100% DAMAGE of its runway and airfield. Supplies got delivered, there was no message about transport flying during the AIR TRANSPORT PHASE, and the only info about the flight taking place could be found in the Operational Report. I believe the supplies are actually dropped and the transport do not land and take off from the damaged airfield.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

if you look at the raw data file, you can see the substituting device. so 800gp (1883) and 800ap (209). you have to look at the file, you can't see it in the editor.

There are obviously some planes that carry the big AP or even SAP as kamikazes (or on naval strike) all the time and I am having a devil of time figuring out which ones.

[mind_messing]

Regarding the AP/GP distinction - fb.asp?m=3714317

Basicaly, the game decides depending on DL.

In the context of kamikaze missions, GP bombs make the most sense. They have higher effect ratings than AP bombs, and doctrine was for them to go after high-value thin-skinned ships such as CV/CVE/CVL, amphibs and smaller warships. AP bombs therefore are a bad trade, as it's less boom in return for only a marginal increase in usefulness.

FWIW, I am almost certain that the cause of BB's sinking above is due to high sys and fires. I'm suspected that the FLT damage occurs as a result of fire-fighting procedures.