Change where Soviet units spawn?

[ThunderLizard11]

Is there a way to easily changed this? Right now they are mostly all getting wiped out the first month. Also, can Russia declare war on Axis? That would help as you could DOW and move back say March/April before German onslaught.

[BillRunacre]

You could make a mod, amending the locations where these units deploy in the Unit scripts, search for the word Barbarossa and change their deployment locations - or add some more units, depending on your preference.

The USSR can declare war on the Axis, but only once it has reached 100% Mobilization.

If the feedback provides a general consensus that the USSR has a problem then we'll do something in a patch. I've seen some recent feedback suggesting that, but more perspectives will be welcome.

[Hubert Cater]

Just throwing this out there in case you might be playing at a higher difficulty level, as I just posted this over at the Steam forums as well, if you are playing at let's say Veteran level or highter, the AI will be a bit more challenging than at the default levels for sure. One thing you could try is to disable the Barbarossa Reserves for the German AXIS AI in the UNIT scripts as these are specific to the Veteran level (or higher) and see how that goes for you.

This can be disabled before you start a new game, or at anytime before Barbarossa starts in a current game. Simply go to OPTIONS->ADVANCED->SCRIPTS and then the UNIT scripts and look near the last few pages for AXIS AI events labelled as Barbarossa Reserves (Veteran).

[hendriks65]

I had this playing a very good player, as he (and I) are aware where all the USSR units deploy upon DOW, the German attack combined with well dropped para's wiped exactly ALL those units including all air out in turn one.

USSR was hopelessly lost after that…

I would very much be for different locations, but better would even be, some of these deploy but most become self placeable availabe in the USSR deploy list.

[ThunderLizard11]

ORIGINAL: hendriks65

I had this playing a very good player, as he (and I) are aware where all the USSR units deploy upon DOW, the German attack combined with well dropped para's wiped exactly ALL those units including all air out in turn one.

USSR was hopelessly lost after that…

I would very much be for different locations, but better would even be, some of these deploy but most become self placeable availabe in the USSR deploy list.

This is a great suggestion even more so for MP than for SP.

Hubert - thanks for the tip - I'll give that a try next Allied game.

[Steely Glint]

I would like to see all reinforcement units be self placable.

[eriador08]

I guess the spawning Units should be endangered to simulate the initial causalities the Red Army took. The german player has the pressure to strike first, if he wishes to cripple the Red Army. If they are placeable, one could place them in a save spot, what makes a preemtive strike useless.

[hendriks65]

Agreed, but knowing EXACTLY where unaffordable air pops up and dropping exact para's next to it to whipe them out and do the same to the other units can't be called a pre-emptive strike but is a suicide setting.

I would argue strongly to make the eastern front more complex by at least sprawning in various places or when self deployable must be in forward regions only, this can be easily set I believe.

Current games, you just start a 1941 quickly as USSR, note locations of sprawn, close and attack in your MP game knowing exactly where to strike.

I'd also argue these units can be bought back with the * system, as right now they are killed with low org and don't get such treatment.

[eriador08]

Yes a random spawning in border region would be better in this case, if doable.
But if you can place the units you would have to place them after the first german turn, what gives the possibility to strike deep into soviets land and maybe even capture all the possible locations to place if they are restricted to the border region. On the other hand if you could place them before the DOW, lets say at 80-90% mobilization, you have too much time to strenghten them, pull them back or something like that.

[Schokolokos]

I almost only play Axis, and they need to have a surprise when they start Barbarossa.

But right now, it has gone too far, I can wipe out every single unit at turn 1 (with occupied Lithuania)

All the spawning Russian Troops should be 1 Hex further away from the boarder or those Troops should spawn randomly along the Russ / Nazi boarder.

[elmo3]

I also played a PBEM game as the Allies. Soviet HQ's and air units were placed right on the front line initially and were wiped out. Not necessarily unrealistic but it looks odd to see HQ's on the front line.

Of bigger concern to me was that the Soviets did not mobilize anywhere near historical levels of units in my game. Within a few turns there was almost nothing between the Axis and Moscow and Stalingrad. I fared a little better in front of Leningrad. Historically the Soviets were mobilizing multiple echelons of armies soon after Barbarossa. I was pretty frugal with spending on research but did not have anywhere enough points left to field historical forces. IMHO the initial deployment of "free" forces when the invasion starts needs to be increased with some being deployed to the rear areas for anyone playing the Allies in PBEM to have a decent chance of holding the Soviet Union.

[Kornstalx]

Guys look, this whole thread is missing one key issue:

There is a 100% chance this was done intentionally by design, and is already considered in balancing.

Those units that spawn like that do so on purpose, with the expectation they will get destroyed. Same for the Low Countries.
I can almost guarantee this was considered when balancing the game, in addition to the fact by they will be half-price and twice as fast to build immediately afterwards.

Stop looking at it as "I lost my free units, bwaaaa" and more like "I get half price units quickly for no reason, yay!"

[amandkm]

ORIGINAL: Kornstalx

Guys look, this whole thread is missing one key issue:

There is a 100% chance this was done intentionally by design, and is already considered in balancing.

Those units that spawn like that do so on purpose, with the expectation they will get destroyed. Same for the Low Countries.
I can almost guarantee this was considered when balancing the game, in addition to the fact by they will be half-price and twice as fast to build immediately afterwards.

Stop looking at it as "I lost my free units, bwaaaa" and more like "I get half price units quickly for no reason, yay!"

It also forces the Germans to take steps to eliminate them, which in turn discourages gamey devices like loading the entire invasion on a small front and ignoring the rest. I agree with the poster here.

[Christolos]

ORIGINAL: amandkm

ORIGINAL: Kornstalx

Guys look, this whole thread is missing one key issue:

There is a 100% chance this was done intentionally by design, and is already considered in balancing.

Those units that spawn like that do so on purpose, with the expectation they will get destroyed. Same for the Low Countries.
I can almost guarantee this was considered when balancing the game, in addition to the fact by they will be half-price and twice as fast to build immediately afterwards.

Stop looking at it as "I lost my free units, bwaaaa" and more like "I get half price units quickly for no reason, yay!"

It also forces the Germans to take steps to eliminate them, which in turn discourages gamey devices like loading the entire invasion on a small front and ignoring the rest. I agree with the poster here.

This is certainly the case in SC War in Europe, but I'm not sure if it may be as balanced given the reduced scale of the map, and the comment by Schokolokos above in Post #:9...

[ThunderLizard11]

ORIGINAL: Christolos

ORIGINAL: amandkm

ORIGINAL: Kornstalx

Guys look, this whole thread is missing one key issue:

There is a 100% chance this was done intentionally by design, and is already considered in balancing.

Those units that spawn like that do so on purpose, with the expectation they will get destroyed. Same for the Low Countries.
I can almost guarantee this was considered when balancing the game, in addition to the fact by they will be half-price and twice as fast to build immediately afterwards.

Stop looking at it as "I lost my free units, bwaaaa" and more like "I get half price units quickly for no reason, yay!"

It also forces the Germans to take steps to eliminate them, which in turn discourages gamey devices like loading the entire invasion on a small front and ignoring the rest. I agree with the poster here.

This is certainly the case in SC War in Europe, but I'm not sure if it may be as balanced given the reduced scale of the map, and the comment by Schokolokos above in Post #:9...

Agree - SC WiE the Soviets took a pounding but were not completely decimated. It looks like it was mostly just ported so I think an adjustment like moving them all back 1-2 squares is in order.

[Pocus]

They don't come back at half price (which is -40% more precisely, I believe) as they have low org.

Count me in among the people who think USSR needs more free speed bump units. Not units that can counter attacks, but unit that can garrison and slow down the onslaught. I barely managed to hold a front for one year at a half against a competent Axis PBEM player, and this was by cranking the UK>USSR convoy to its max from turn 1. Each turn, I poured 800 MPP to Russia, and they were burn. And still, the German had clearly the upper hand and this was an exercise of optimization and equilibrium to maintain a shadow of a front. Then my partner disappeared from sight and the game was cancelled (because no PBEM ever reaches its end, there is always one quitting, more or less elegantly).

[IronX]

I too agree that the Soviets need more love. It might help if the German AI doesn't start its invasion until the historical date, not April 41, as this gives them an extra two months before winter hits. I'm currently in 1943 watching my front line crumble under the weight of German level 4 heavy armour. This needs to be limited to more historical levels. The Soviets could also definitely do with more MPP.

[Kornstalx]

ORIGINAL: Pocus

They don't come back at half price (which is -40% more precisely, I believe) as they have low org.

You're right, I didn't consider the supply. It is 50% though for rebuilds, you can see this in the editor.

[Numdydar]

ORIGINAL: Christolos

ORIGINAL: amandkm

ORIGINAL: Kornstalx

Guys look, this whole thread is missing one key issue:

There is a 100% chance this was done intentionally by design, and is already considered in balancing.

Those units that spawn like that do so on purpose, with the expectation they will get destroyed. Same for the Low Countries.
I can almost guarantee this was considered when balancing the game, in addition to the fact by they will be half-price and twice as fast to build immediately afterwards.

Stop looking at it as "I lost my free units, bwaaaa" and more like "I get half price units quickly for no reason, yay!"

It also forces the Germans to take steps to eliminate them, which in turn discourages gamey devices like loading the entire invasion on a small front and ignoring the rest. I agree with the poster here.

This is certainly the case in SC War in Europe, but I'm not sure if it may be as balanced given the reduced scale of the map, and the comment by Schokolokos above in Post #:9...

So we need a bigger map