Poland surrendering on turn 1 gives Germany eastern Poland?

[LuciusSulla]

This is rather a balancing issue than a bug. If Germany conquers Warsaw on turn 1 and if Poland surrenders at the same turn, Soviets would not be given an option to occupy eastern Poland.

And I believe I just found a repeatable strategy for Germany to conquer Warsaw on turn 1. I could summarize this strategy in AAR section if anyone is interested.

[James Taylor]

Turn one subjugation of Poland is a really great move.

[LuciusSulla]

I have posted the strategy here:
tm.asp?m=4593434&mpage=1&key=&#4593434

[LuciusSulla]

That's why it should not be repeatable.

As I have already posted the strategy, before it is somehow tweaked, I really don't want to start a multiplayer game as Allies.

[Capitaine]

Wasn't the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact agreed to before Germany invaded Poland? That's my understanding. Why would speed of conquest affect the ultimate disposition of Poland?

[boudi]

Because this ?


DE 406 – USSR: Order the Red Army to advance into Poland?
Event fires: When the USSR is politically aligned with the Allies but not fully mobilized, Poland
is Allied and has not surrendered, Berlin is in Axis hands and an Axis unit is within 2 hexes of
either Warsaw, Lwow, Lublin or Kutno

And then, the DE 600 can't be triggered ?

DE 600 – Germany: Shall We Honor The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact?

Event fires: When Poland surrenders, the Red Army has invaded eastern Poland, the USSR is
Allied but not fully mobilized, and Berlin is in Axis hands.

[LuciusSulla]

Yep.
If DE 406 was not fired, Poland would just surrender as any usual nation. The conquerer takes all its territory.
Just like France surrendering without the Vichy event (e.g. Algier is taken before surrender).

[BillRunacre]

Hi LuciasSulla

Reading this, my initial thought is whether strengthening the Poznan Army would render this nigh on impossible?

I did try recreating this situation a little while ago as someone else posted that it was possible, but when I tried it it seemed to require an excessive amount of luck with the dice, and so it would be very unlikely to occur in PBEM where you only have one chance.

But I didn't attack Poznan, just bypassed it as they did in real life, but if that is crucial to this then we can consider changing it.

[Bylandt11]

Germany will lose the 25 MPP from USSR aid. And USSR will have a 5% higher mobilization (15 MPP's per turn extra, for almost 2 years). And no option to annex Lithuania. Not sure that the turn 1 conquest of Poland is such a good idea.

[LuciusSulla]

Eastern Poland itself provides over 20 MPP prior to tech-adjustment. Germany is really not losing any MPP from this and is making USSR losing this income.

Eastern Poland provides far better attack position than Lithuaia; and you are also mobilizing USSR 7%-10% by annexing Lithuania. If you think annexing Lithuania in exchange for 7% USSR mobilization is a good deal, early Poland surrender is certainly far better.
Probably a comparison with DE 600 is more fair, where Germany has to annex eastern Poland in exchange for 20-30% USSR mobilization (a net 15-25% when adding DE 406 to the count).

[LuciusSulla]

Yep, this should be a good way to tweak it.
Poznan unit with 5 strength or more blocks the northern German tank from reaching Warsaw, which means two less tank attacks.

Thanks for the quick response.

[Bylandt11]

ORIGINAL: LuciusSulla

Eastern Poland itself provides over 20 MPP prior to tech-adjustment. Germany is really not losing any MPP from this and is making USSR losing this income.

Eastern Poland provides far better attack position than Lithuaia; and you are also mobilizing USSR 7%-10% by annexing Lithuania. If you think annexing Lithuania in exchange for 7% USSR mobilization is a good deal, early Poland surrender is certainly far better.
Probably a comparison with DE 600 is more fair, where Germany has to annex eastern Poland in exchange for 20-30% USSR mobilization (a net 15-25% when adding DE 406 to the count).

I don't think annexing Lithuania is a good idea. I just mentioned it for completeness.

Germany loses 25 from USSR aid, which is more than it gains from eastern Poland. USSR gains 15 MPP and loses only a fraction of the 20 MP from eastern Poland (early mobilization is at 20% after honoring the pact).

Yes, Germany definitely gains a better position to launch Barbarossa. But the MPP-disadvantage is compensation for the USSR. At least, it makes the 1 turn Poland conquest much less of a problem for the balance of the game.

[edavid44]

I just got Poland taken at turn 1 in a PBEM game but maybe there has been a change of rule but the Postdam army starts at 7. You need to be very lucky for the move to work. I still managed to win the game with the allies

[Chernobyl]

I just got Poland taken at turn 1 in a PBEM game but maybe there has been a change of rule but the Postdam army starts at 7. You need to be very lucky for the move to work. I still managed to win the game with the allies

This is a very old thread and the "honor the molotov ribbentrop pact" event fires now even if you conquer Poland on turn 1.
It's actually quite easy to take Warsaw reliably on turn 1 as Germany, but it's not a good idea for the Axis to do so.

[Zeckke]

not a good idea in 1 turn, events are better came on right time, if not Rumania hungary yugoeslavia may fall events