Neogodhobo VS TheLysander AAR

[Neogodhobo]

usually, 3 turns per day.

[John B.]

Just saw this AAR and I"m all caught up. Thanks for putting so much effort into it. And, I admire your warrior spirit. It ain't over until it's over and, in the interim, you get to break a few of his units, push into Leningrad and declare victory.

[bigbaba1111]

ORIGINAL: John B.

Just saw this AAR and I"m all caught up. Thanks for putting so much effort into it. And, I admire your warrior spirit. It ain't over until it's over and, in the interim, you get to break a few of his units, push into Leningrad and declare victory.

i second most of that. except the victory part.[:D]

mnuch respect to you for keeping to play a lost war.

[821Bobo]

If I would be playing Soviets I would offer you surrender. This cannot be any fun even for Soviets.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

If I would be playing Soviets I would offer you surrender. This cannot be any fun even for Soviets.

First, fun can be defined as striving for a win as defined by the game designers. Certainly chess is in that category. When a player losses a queen and things look lopsided it cannot be very fun to go through the motions. But I might propose that WITE between two players focused on a journey might still be enjoyable.

The games that go to the very end are very rare. I am assuming that two players engaging in this monster game for the journey rather than the result is indeed a rare event. But when games are played to the very end even when the "game has been decided" the community learns much and the game gets better. Myself, I learned a lot from SmokingDave vs BrianG for example.

[821Bobo]

I am taking it from my perspective. I had games where I stopped Axis at Dneper and then offered ending the game because it was not fun at all for me.
And also obviously Lysander is flipping turns here but I get in my game versus him 1 per 2 days at best. Thats a quite hypocritical.

[Neogodhobo]

There is a possibility of ending the game here. just to let people know. We are in a peace talk right now, proposing a conditional surrender ( I get to keep Germany's core land, forfeiting (occupied) Poland to the Soviet.
Nothing is set in stone here and the Soviet might refuse the peace talk. The war is still going on as normal in between the talks but soldiers might be dying for nothing.

Peace would bring a lot of soldiers home for the defense of France, Germany, Italy and other parts of the frontline. Land in the Soviet Union might be but a dream away. The war might continue though so like I said, nothing is set in stones.

[Neogodhobo]

.

[Saulust]

No Peace out yet please... enjoying this effort kudos.

However, I am just wondering why no one is yet to comment on Neo's railway repair paths that the FBDs are on in this game?

I really don't like the paths Neogdhobo has taken them by, not sure if these have led to the bad situation down south in particular but they are definitely not expertly optimised IMHO.

I'm not poking fun at them, just hoping for constructive criticism here, as the RR net is something I am still perfecting in my SP games as Germany, so I was really looking for an AAR focused on them to a degree, like this one.

Firstly, who still sends FBD 3 via Breat-Litovsk-Baronavichi-... in support of Guderian's Pz Grp 2, since I find in best to RR it on T1 up to start the line towards Kaunus and then send it repairing towards Vilnius on T2 to then down to Minsk, which may not best best but is what I do for now which I think gets it further east quicker than B-L-Baron... etc.

Secondly, I also thought that Neo... sent the northern most (FBD 4) too far west along the coast north from Riga, personally I go north-east with it from Riga heading to Pskov, if not just to support Pz Grp 4 with supplies but also to plonk down some LW airbases on connected RR hexes behind them but as close as I can get them.

Thirdly, how far back from the banks of the Dnepr is the one in the AGS area (FBD 1) going the way Neo's path is going... isn't it best to move via northern Rumania/Bukavina?

[Neogodhobo]

ORIGINAL: Saulust
I am just wondering why no one is yet to comment on Neo's railway repair paths...but they are definitely not expertly optimised IMHO.

Your question can be answered in the first post of the AAR, wich I have quoted here :

ORIGINAL: Neogodhobo

...I am not a very methodical, expert...I am not very experienced and this is my first real multiplayer game.... I am not looking for advice as it wouldnt be very fair to my opponent.

Either way, the game is over now, so feel free to discussed.

[Saulust]

Sorry Neogoodhobo, I did say I wasn't having a go at you over your FBD pathways, I realised you weren't claiming expert status whatever, but I was really just asking for others to chime in and discuss... besides I thought you said you welcomed comments or advice somewhere in this thread anyway. I just wanted some discussion on FBD handling & pathways, not trying to diss you.

On a different subject slightly related to routes and pathways, I think both the FBD 4 and Pz Grp 4 should have been heading for Pskov, not Narva. I thought about Narva once or twice early on but I have now come to the conclusion that 18th Army Infantry is enough to go that way, not Pz Grp 4 or even one of its Pz Korps. Now at the most I might threaten the area and quickly flip north-east Estonia for faster ID movement through the area with a single solitary Mot Div which I may use to grab Tallin with or slip through the marsh between the two Lakes above Pskov or at least threaten to do so while I storm Pskov and area, but that's just me. ATM I am however toying with using the FBD to go as far north-east as Hex 67, Y 25, the RR hex above Tartu across the Emajogi River on turn 6, I think, but then bring it back down to Pskov fixing the triangle and then cross Velikaya River & into the key city over the next two turns... with this extension, which looks similar to your FBD left hook U-turn, I hope this helps to both threaten the Narva and the Lake breasted marsh approaches and sets up some RR connected airbase positions here for support and also helps the Btln RR construction units in their single hex advancement to reach both Tallin and Narva before & during the mud and ultimately Leningrad.

IMHO Pskov is the key gateway to Leningrad bar none, with its 6 RR spider web junction feature its the schiznitz. Narva is the only other northern route and I think it is too far north for the FBD RR to go, while Velikie Luki is too far south of Leningrad to go for getting to Leningrad at well over 20 hexes to the south there of. The only other twist and turning route to go through is Novosokolniki (two hexes west of VL) north to Dno, but I think Pskov is better for getting to Dno and beyond anyway...

Discuss... or disgust! [X(]

[xhoel]

Either way, the game is over now, so feel free to discussed.

Did you guys end the game? I thought you were going to continue?

[Crackaces]

I have taken Leningrad without an assault on Pskov crossing north of Pskov and putting pressure on the Narva. It was associated with shutting down Osinovetes .. a plan with a strategy in mind sometimes ..

[Saulust]

@ Crackaces, I'm not saying Leningrad can't be captured by a German player going via the Narva direction and completely bypassing Pskov, but I still think securing Pskov is best as an approach route to St Peter's overall, although I am quite impressed that you managed to achieve it without Pskov! [&o]

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough above but I am looking at the rail net very heavily in my approach here towards Leningrad and what I meant was that I feel rebuilding the RR all the way through Estonia up to Narva and beyond via Veymarn to Leningrad leaves too much between up here and the next RR repair route going to either V-L or Vitebsk, going to Pskov just looks more middle of the road spanning for future spreading of the railnet by Btlns one hex a turn. I may be overly focused on that, but anyway I also like the position of Pskov itself strategically.

I like to also consider my airbase and Me/Bf 109 & Ju-87 Stukas coverage and also I think running all the way up to the Gulf of Finland coast and along from that east waste a lot of coverage over water... I also think going to Leningrad via Plyussa from Pskov is also too North-West for me. I aim at least for Dno which gives me the option of going due north to Bateckaya or to Staraya Russa and then to Shimsk-Novgorod or else going further east to Bologoe in a really long right hook ... that threatens to swing down on the Moscow region from the far north flank.

Pskov itself gives you those kind of options, north, northeast directly assaulting Leningrad or east to either Novgorod or swinging south of Lake Ilman and hooking deeply. Keeps the Russians covering too many options or missing one and also psychologically off balance guessing which one too, hopefully encouraging a mistake.

Anyway these are my plans, works against the AI, but a human opponent don't know yet!

[ledo]

I've only played 4 games against human, but I've never attacked Pskov directly, dislodging the defense by attacking south of it and threatening an encirclement of the position usually forces them back to the Luga for me. I always try to sneak through the swamps if they let me and i find you can net some units if you put one motorized or panzer division on the Narva early, threatening to connect with units coming from the south. It gives you a shot at disrupting the Luga line even if it's not always successful.

Also having the AGN's Panzer Group to the south of Pskov concentrates almost two panzer groups between AGC, AGN and gives me the option of swinging them both towards the landbridge or north, even if I don't take the risk it can scare/confuse the soviet player.

[EwaldvonKleist]

@Saulust

See railway path map in the library, link is in signature.
Most good players use something similiar to this, although many start from two points not one as shown on this map.

I personally do not like the Brest-Litovsk way.

In South, rail repair from Rumania is the way to go.

[Neogodhobo]

ORIGINAL: xhoel

Either way, the game is over now, so feel free to discussed.

Did you guys end the game? I thought you were going to continue?

It just became an impossible , not fun at all, thing to play, as my enemy had about 8 million soviets, I couldnt even do a proper offensive in the summer of 42 as he was pushing me back and creating pockets. The game ended when he pocketed 4 of my Panzer Army. I will post turn 32 to 53 soon and you guys will be able to take a look at it.

ORIGINAL: Saulust
Sorry Neogoodhobo, I did say I wasn't having a go at you over your FBD pathways,

I know, dont worry about it.

[Neogodhobo]

So I have left out a lot of the turns that consisted in almost doing nothing (The Rasputitsa period). Following turns all range between 32+ to 55, the final turn


NORTHERN FRONT, Turn 47

[Neogodhobo]

Central Front

[Neogodhobo]

Possible plan for Summer Offensive