A Clash of Titans, Xhoel (Axis) vs Bitburger (Soviet)

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Dinglir

I can't help but feel that there seems to be a lack of a clear plan to the Soviet attacks this winter.

Take the attack on the Finns above. what does the Soviets hope to achieve by such an attack?

1) There are no other attacks in the sector at all, so there seems to be no strategic aim to the attack (at least none that I can see).
2) The Finns have a high morale, so even in case of a Soviet win, they will suffer no real retreat attrition.
3) Some will argue for Guards creations, but they are capped anyway, and a concerted effort elsewhere will surely give the needed wins.
4) I realize some will argue for win accumulation, but the morale of the involved units will simply readjust to their old levels over a couple of turns

As I see it, the Soviets will expend supplies and suffer manpower losses for very few tangible gains with attacks like this.

Another thing I wonder is the presence of entire Rifle divisions holding Voznesenye to the far north of the line. These units must be some nice distance from the nearest railhead and put a little extra strain on the supply system. Why not just place a few Rifle Brigades on the line up here? Should the Finns attack, all they would gain is a little forest, some longer supply lines and a hit to their National Morale as they move south. The Soviets meanwhile would get closer to their own supply lines and be just a little better off.

Anyways, I know it is unfair of me to write this in an Axis AAR. I just wonder, if the Axis players out there sees the situation the same way I do?

All excellent points. I would retreat behind the no Finish move line to the South and East. That way I save on attrition from the Finnish. But of course this would be gamey as heck but still I would do it.

But in defense of the Soviets attacking the Germans, even in full Blizzard, is very painful with the new MP expenditure for a failed attack again on the same hex.

[xhoel]

ORIGINAL: Dinglir

I can't help but feel that there seems to be a lack of a clear plan to the Soviet attacks this winter.

Take the attack on the Finns above. what does the Soviets hope to achieve by such an attack?

1) There are no other attacks in the sector at all, so there seems to be no strategic aim to the attack (at least none that I can see).
2) The Finns have a high morale, so even in case of a Soviet win, they will suffer no real retreat attrition.
3) Some will argue for Guards creations, but they are capped anyway, and a concerted effort elsewhere will surely give the needed wins.
4) I realize some will argue for win accumulation, but the morale of the involved units will simply readjust to their old levels over a couple of turns

As I see it, the Soviets will expend supplies and suffer manpower losses for very few tangible gains with attacks like this.

Another thing I wonder is the presence of entire Rifle divisions holding Voznesenye to the far north of the line. These units must be some nice distance from the nearest railhead and put a little extra strain on the supply system. Why not just place a few Rifle Brigades on the line up here? Should the Finns attack, all they would gain is a little forest, some longer supply lines and a hit to their National Morale as they move south. The Soviets meanwhile would get closer to their own supply lines and be just a little better off.

Anyways, I know it is unfair of me to write this in an Axis AAR. I just wonder, if the Axis players out there sees the situation the same way I do?

I will disagree with you. That was one lone attack, where the Soviets saw their opportunity and attacked. Nothing else. So overanalyzing the thing is not really needed. There is no Soviet push there and there won't be one as far as I can tell. That is a smart decision by the Soviet player.

He has put rifle divisions there because he wants to hold the line somewhere and clearly doesn't want to see his whole front get routed every week. I doubt that those few Rifle divisions are causing such a strain to the Soviet supply system. I clearly see that Bitburgerdraft is using so many Motorcycle Regiments (which eat trucks up) that I can conclude that he doesn't have a truck shortage.

Would it be better if he pulled back further? No doubt, but his strategy is to hold his ground and everyone has their own strategy.

As to the lack of clear plan I will disagree as well. The Soviet plan clearly intended to push the Germans from the Moscow flanks. They have achieved that goal. Another goal was to cut the Tula salient. They made good gains there but have switched their objective after they encountered heavy German resistance. I'm sure Bitburgerdraft will be able to answer more precisely once he is able to read the AAR.

[xhoel]

All excellent points. I would retreat behind the no Finish move line to the South and East. That way I save on attrition from the Finnish. But of course this would be gamey as heck but still I would do it.

But in defense of the Soviets attacking the Germans, even in full Blizzard, is very painful with the new MP expenditure for a failed attack again on the same hex.

Different players will play the game differently I guess. We are both trying to play a historical game and are not going for "gamey" tactics. This works good for us. For you and other people it may not work. No judgement there. Different strokes for different folks.

As to the MP expenditure, I can guarantee you that it is playing no role whatsoever in the offensive. Most Soviet attacks are successful on the first go and even the ones that aren't, are not hindering them much. The secondary attacks are conducted and succeed quite often.

The new Morale rule is detrimental to the Germans during the first winter (since you gain no morale from holds and the Soviets lose no morale from the failure to capture positions) so that is more than enough to balance the game IMHO. And keep in mind that the same MP expenditure rules apply to the Germans (applicable more in the summer but still).

I will ask my opponent if the MP rule appears to be the problem for him and will let you know what he says.

[xhoel]

Crimea

The situation in the Crimea remains the same as ever. No Soviet attacks are reported. Rail repair continues at full speed and the supply situation has improved immensly.




Casualties
Ground

This week saw reduced fighting and this can be easily observed when looking at casualties sustained. Soviet KIAs are just a mark shy of 34.000 while the Axis one are shy of 7.000 men. The Soviets lost almost 1.000 guns again this week but took very small losses in AFV as compared to the other weeks. The winter is far from over however and we expect heavy fighting in the next couple of weeks.



Air
The Axis lost almost 60 aircraft during this week. The reason for the high numbers was the loss of 17 bombers in the Rzhev sector which caused a heavy blow to the air groups deployed there. The Soviets lost 285 aircraft and have surpassed the 17.000 mark.



The truck deficit remains at 33.000 trucks and has not increased further.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: xhoel


I will ask my opponent if the MP rule appears to be the problem for him and will let you know what he says.

Thanks but not needed at all. I already know it does especially when making numerous attacks. We could debate the other points you mentioned but I don’t want to detract from your AAR any more.

[xhoel]

Thanks but not needed at all. I already know it does especially when making numerous attacks. We could debate the other points you mentioned but I don’t want to detract from your AAR any more.

I had at least 3 offensives stopped during the summer due to the new MP rule (2 in the center and 1 in the south) so while I understand your point, to me it doesn't appear that the rule is a hindrance created for the Soviet player specifically but it hinders both players equally.

We can gladly debate. The update for turn 32 is over so until the new update comes in 3-4 days we can debate the points that were made.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: xhoel

Thanks but not needed at all. I already know it does especially when making numerous attacks. We could debate the other points you mentioned but I don’t want to detract from your AAR any more.

I had at least 3 offensives stopped during the summer due to the new MP rule (2 in the center and 1 in the south) so while I understand your point, to me it doesn't appear that the rule is a hindrance created for the Soviet player specifically but it hinders both players equally.

We can gladly debate. The update for turn 32 is over so until the new update comes in 3-4 days we can debate the points that were made.

Technically you would think it is equal “but” the vast majority of Soviet attacks are deliberate versus the majority of German attacks are “hasty”. Much easier to continue the attack after a failed hasty than a deliberate. But again I don’t want to detract further from the AAR. I am respectfully bailing out here. Thank you though for the gracious continuation of the debate but I am declining.

[Dinglir]

ORIGINAL: xhoel
I will disagree with you. That was one lone attack, where the Soviets saw their opportunity and attacked. Nothing else. So overanalyzing the thing is not really needed. There is no Soviet push there and there won't be one as far as I can tell. That is a smart decision by the Soviet player.

I am glad you disagree. Part of the fun is different playing styles. We shall see if Bitburgers work out in the end.

ORIGINAL: xhoel
He has put rifle divisions there because he wants to hold the line somewhere and clearly doesn't want to see his whole front get routed every week. I doubt that those few Rifle divisions are causing such a strain to the Soviet supply system. I clearly see that Bitburgerdraft is using so many Motorcycle Regiments (which eat trucks up) that I can conclude that he doesn't have a truck shortage.

Would it be better if he pulled back further? No doubt, but his strategy is to hold his ground and everyone has their own strategy.

Personally, I would not withdraw either, as I wish to always inflict attrition on the Axis. What I am saying is that once fortifications are in place, I would probably man them with a few Brigades and leave it at that (much like you appear to have done opposite the line).

ORIGINAL: xhoel
As to the lack of clear plan I will disagree as well. The Soviet plan clearly intended to push the Germans from the Moscow flanks. They have achieved that goal. Another goal was to cut the Tula salient. They made good gains there but have switched their objective after they encountered heavy German resistance. I'm sure Bitburgerdraft will be able to answer more precisely once he is able to read the AAR.

Cool. I guess I am just not paying close enough attention to the details, then.

Anyways, very good AAR reporting. Very unique style and very well done.

[xhoel]

Technically you would think it is equal “but” the vast majority of Soviet attacks are deliberate versus the majority of German attacks are “hasty”. Much easier to continue the attack after a failed hasty than a deliberate. But again I don’t want to detract further from the AAR. I am respectfully bailing out here. Thank you though for the gracious continuation of the debate but I am declining.

I can only speak for myself. I rarely conduct hasty attacks. It is usually a 20-80 split where 80% of the times I use deliberate attacks. I have been burned far too often and have learned my lesson.

Ok, as you like HLYA. Thanks for the comment!

[xhoel]

Don't get me wrong, the points you made about the attack on the Finns were spot on, however considering that this is the only attack that the Soviets have conducted in the sector since the start of the Blizzards, it seemed as an over analyzation of the situation.

Personally, I would not withdraw either, as I wish to always inflict attrition on the Axis. What I am saying is that once fortifications are in place, I would probably man them with a few Brigades and leave it at that (much like you appear to have done opposite the line).

The problem with that is that the Rifle Brigades are not as strong as the Rifle Divisions and I would have a much easier time attacking them and eventually routing or forcing them to retreat. Using divisions allows him to ensure that some parts of that frontline won't be touched.

Cool. I guess I am just not paying close enough attention to the details, then.

Anyways, very good AAR reporting. Very unique style and very well done.

I think that if you take a look at the positions on turn 26 and the positions on turn 32 you will see that the Soviets have done quite well in the Moscow flanks and they have generally taken back a lot of ground.

Thank you for the comments Dinglir. I always welcome a good discussion, comments and critique, even if it is something I see differently and/or disagree with. You have a great way of articulating yourself and if all the opinions in the forums would be worded as yours are, there would be a better climate! I look forward to seeing you here more often!

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: xhoel

Technically you would think it is equal “but” the vast majority of Soviet attacks are deliberate versus the majority of German attacks are “hasty”. Much easier to continue the attack after a failed hasty than a deliberate. But again I don’t want to detract further from the AAR. I am respectfully bailing out here. Thank you though for the gracious continuation of the debate but I am declining.

I can only speak for myself. I rarely conduct hasty attacks. It is usually a 20-80 split where 80% of the times I use deliberate attacks. I have been burned far too often and have learned my lesson.

Ok, as you like HLYA. Thanks for the comment!

One thought on the hasty attacks .. if my upper HQ has not moved and is within 3 hexes, my attacking stack is sufficiently stacked with the proper SU's , and no terrain modifiers .. then I think the Germans have to consider a hasty maybe (2) hasty attacks to conserve MP's. One such case is in the 8MP game on turn 54 .. where these conditions were pointed out to me sure enough the hasty attacked worked -- sealing off precious cavalry units. I think the Germans have to consider hasty attacks when possible to get maximum exploitation ...

[xhoel]

One thought on the hasty attacks .. if my upper HQ has not moved and is within 3 hexes, my attacking stack is sufficiently stacked with the proper SU's , and no terrain modifiers .. then I think the Germans have to consider a hasty maybe (2) hasty attacks to conserve MP's. One such case is in the 8MP game on turn 54 .. where these conditions were pointed out to me sure enough the hasty attacked worked -- sealing off precious cavalry units. I think the Germans have to consider hasty attacks when possible to get maximum exploitation ...

Aye I will agree with you on that. When the situation is right I use hasty attacks, however like I said in the grand scheme of things they play a minor role for me. I would rather conduct a deliberate attack and push the enemy back then risk a hold especially in important operations.

[xhoel]

T33, 29th of January-5th of February 1942.
AGN

Not much activity in the north this week. The Soviets have brought some new units in order to hold the front and the Finnish Army has been ordered to hold its positions. Only 2 attacks took place during this week, both managed to push the Soviets back. 1 Soviet Rifle Division was routed.



The enemy seems to have moved numerous formations in the Valdai area and is no doubt preparing for an attack here. We have reinforced our positions and await the Soviet move.

[xhoel]

AGC

The Rzhev sector was relatively quiet last week with only 3 attacks conducted by the Soviets. The enemy proved unable to secure the territory gained and we recovered it during this week. A successful counterattack north of Volokolamsk routed a Soviet Rifle division and forced 2 Rifle Brigades to retreat.





North-east of Kaluga the Soviets are putting a lot of pressure on our forces. 2 Soviet attacks caused heavy losses to our defending formations. The Soviets have now reached the rail lines leading to Tula so supply is being sent to the city by trucks as of this week. We have reinforced our positions as best as we could and await further attacks here.

In the Tula sector our forces have been pushed back as well. An unlucky week, considering that none of our Panzer divisions activated for a counterattack. We did however launch a counterattack this week, routing 3 Soviet Rifle Divisions and pushing the enemy back from the outskirts of Tula itself. The LIII Corps has deployed 3 Infantry divisions in this key position and will attempt to hold it no matter what.





In the Kursk sector the enemy hit us in 4 places. Luck wasn't on our side again as not armored divisions came to the rescue of our defenders on the front. The 3rd Regiment of the 61st ID took heavy losses facing enemy Cavalry Corps. We managed to hold back only one attack. We have redeployed our forces and are better prepared for an enemy attack.

[xhoel]

AGS

3 out of 4 Soviet attacks in front of Kharkov were successful and managed to push our forces back. We recovered two of the lost positions and counterattacked a lone Soviet Rifle Brigade during this week. The positions held by the XI Corps are the most endangered one in this sector and will need to be reinforced quickly.





In the Stalino-Rostov sector the enemy launched only 3 attacks, choosing to concecntrate their resources in key points and causing heavy losses. We have pulled back in certain areas but there is no doubt that we need to deploy more forces here if we are to hold our positions.

The Soviets made a third thrust for Rostov and pushed back the 1st Mtn Division. The Division is operation at 50% TOE due to the intensive fighting in the last few weeks. We counterattacked and recovered the vital position once more during this week while routing a Soviet Rifle division and pushing back 2 others. The 97th Light Infantry Division relieved the 1st Mtn Division as the latter has been deployed north of them. The 13th Pz Division has also arrived in the sector to reinforce it.

[Crackaces]

Just to say .. light flak especially the quad 20mm is very very effective vs Calvary (You just want high ROF and enage as many devices and squads as possible.)

I have attached quad 20 SP units directly to units facing cav with great results. After a few turns of high losses I was no longer under a threat.

[xhoel]

Crimea

No changes in the Crime except for moving some depleted Rumanian divisions to the rear now that the rail has reached the peninsula. Meterologists predict snow for next week, which means that Crimea is now a safe sector.





Losses

The losses this week continued in the normal trend. The Axis suffered around 7.600 KIAs while the Soviets suffered almost 33.000 an exchange rate of 4,3:1. The enemy lost a high number of guns again this week, around 1.100 guns were lost.



In the air the strain of winter is starting to show its face. Fighter and Transport losses have increased again as fatigued air crews are needed in almost all sectors.



Truck deficit has increased to 41.000 trucks, a result of the rail cut off leading to Tula.

[xhoel]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

Just to say .. light flak especially the quad 20mm is very very effective vs Calvary (You just want high ROF and enage as many devices and squads as possible.)

I have attached quad 20 SP units directly to units facing cav with great results. After a few turns of high losses I was no longer under a threat.

Yes been using that neat little trick of yours, so thanks for all the level 7 battles you have gone through. The 20mm Quad is great at engaging soft targets!

[xhoel]

I wanted to add a little advice for Axis players. If you see that some of your divisions are in a really bad state during the blizzards (eg very low morale and TOE) consider sending them to the rear for R&R. Make sure to put them more than 10 hexes from the front so they can recover morale. It takes some time but it is effective to make them combat capable again.

This is the 113th ID on turn 30. Notice the low morale (57):



I pulled them back from the front and put them on refit in the rear (in a blizzard protected hex don't forget) with a max TOE capped at 80 (no reason to go higher). On turn 33 this was that same division, which I have now deployed to the front:



So basically it will take some time and effort to move the units around but it is worth it IMHO.

Cheers,
Xhoel

[xhoel]

T34, 5th of February-12th of February 1942
AGN

The week saw sporadic combat in the north. The Finnish Army routed 1 Soviet Rifle Division and shattered another one. The 19th Finnish ID was disbanded and its men will be used to bring other divisions up to strength. The Valdai sector saw no combat last week to our surprise.