Japan Convoy Option - The Plodders

[jdsrae]

I was wrong once. I thought I’d made a mistake but I hadn’t [:D]

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista


Every JFB should expand Fusan, it is 2 hex safe route through base hexes that can be mined (bye-bye subs). No other routes like this connect Japan with anything else in the game

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[Disco Duck]

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Word of warning, Escort Carrier task forces exist as a game mechanic to aid the AI in task force composition. There is no in game extra benefit for a player using this task force mode to hunt subs, in fact I can pretty much guarantee that the subs will penetrate and sink your escort carriers pretty easily even with 30+ points of ASW defense.

The same holds true for nesting AV into convoys. Use with extreme caution, or better yet, don't use in that manner.

Fighting subs is all about maximizing DL thru the day and night phases. However you do this, then you can pretty much travel safely.

Yep, AV to be disbanded in port at main hubs and along convoy routes to get FP over as much of the convoy routes as possible.
Singapore to Japan oil route the priority, so you may as well run lots of other ships along that route too.
If the CVE survive supporting amphib landings I think I’ll then use them almost the same way as AV, park them somewhere in a coastal hex so that their air groups add to the ASW umbrella.

So do you set the float planes to ASW or Naval search?

[jdsrae]

Japan doesn’t start with a lot of FP units so need to prioritise.
Seems to be most important to detect subs, so I will use FP groups half on day and half on night naval search. I want to flood the Singapore to Japan convoy route with naval search so allied subs have to keep diving.
Also layered with long range patrols on naval search (Mavis/Emily/Nell/Betty), more layers with land based IJN DB/TB types (Val/Kate) on naval search.
Once there are enough search layers, I will then change a few groups to ASW, probably the land based Val/Kate groups as they drop a bigger bomb.
I’m going to land the [name]-2 FP groups from cruisers and resize on CS for example to get more FP groups to use on ASW, but it will still take months to fill them all with planes then train the pilots.
Some players add IJA bombers to the ASW force too.

[mind_messing]

The floatplanes on ASW or NavS debate is as old as the game itself.

I'd tend to utilize the FP's on NavS, at it maximizes their best characteristics (range and quantity) while ignores their weaker aspects (poor bombload).

I'd then bolster them with an IJA 2E squadron with ASW trained pilots. The floatplanes find the ship, the bombers send it home or (better yet) sink it.

An over-emphasis on naval search (both day and night) makes sense to me, as a sub with a high DL tends to be attacked by surface ASW assets more regularly. On a more basic level, knowing where a sub is allows you to avoid it completely.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

The floatplanes on ASW or NavS debate is as old as the game itself.

I'd tend to utilize the FP's on NavS, at it maximizes their best characteristics (range and quantity) while ignores their weaker aspects (poor bombload).

I'd then bolster them with an IJA 2E squadron with ASW trained pilots. The floatplanes find the ship, the bombers send it home or (better yet) sink it.

An over-emphasis on naval search (both day and night) makes sense to me, as a sub with a high DL tends to be attacked by surface ASW assets more regularly. On a more basic level, knowing where a sub is allows you to avoid it completely.

I tend to do the same, with one addition. I use the Ann and Mary for ASW as well. They carry a 250kg bomb and can operate from a level 2 airfield.

[rustysi]

The floatplanes on ASW or NavS debate is as old as the game itself.

I'd tend to utilize the FP's on NavS, at it maximizes their best characteristics (range and quantity) while ignores their weaker aspects (poor bombload).

While this is fine from a LB FP's perspective, I like to have some do ASW while I'm at sea. I use the division method. A two ship BB or CA division would have one unit NavS and one ASW.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

The floatplanes on ASW or NavS debate is as old as the game itself.

I'd tend to utilize the FP's on NavS, at it maximizes their best characteristics (range and quantity) while ignores their weaker aspects (poor bombload).

While this is fine from a LB FP's perspective, I like to have some do ASW while I'm at sea. I use the division method. A two ship BB or CA division would have one unit NavS and one ASW.

I often do the same, usually using the Pete for ASW due to their incredible range. Not sure what they'd actually do to a sub though. Maybe the captain will laugh so hard he'll pull something. Then he'd have to hobble around for a day or two. [8|]

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: rustysi

The floatplanes on ASW or NavS debate is as old as the game itself.

I'd tend to utilize the FP's on NavS, at it maximizes their best characteristics (range and quantity) while ignores their weaker aspects (poor bombload).

While this is fine from a LB FP's perspective, I like to have some do ASW while I'm at sea. I use the division method. A two ship BB or CA division would have one unit NavS and one ASW.

I often do the same, usually using the Pete for ASW due to their incredible range. Not sure what they'd actually do to a sub though. Maybe the captain will laugh so hard he'll pull something. Then he'd have to hobble around for a day or two. [8|]

From my understanding of game mechanics, in that situation it's less a case of actually sinking the ship, and more a case of keeping DL high to increase likelyhood of escorts pro-actively engaging the sub in ASW combat.

[traskott]

Expecting someone to make the same chart for the allied [:)][:)][:D]

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: traskott
Expecting someone to make the same chart for the allied [:)][:)][:D]

Supply/fuel: US -> everywhere else [:D]

[jdsrae]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: traskott
Expecting someone to make the same chart for the allied [:)][:)][:D]

Supply/fuel: US -> everywhere else [:D]

I agree with what GA said, but also ship fuel from the Middle East to India.
It is on my to do list to make a similar chart for the allies, but it is far less important to be efficient compared to playing the Japan side.
This table is rev 0 as it does not yet include "national automatic" supply or fuel that is generated on map if the allies own certain bases, and I haven't checked it yet.
There are a few notes in the last few pages of the manual that talk about allied industry at a very high level which this data supports:
1. Australia needs fuel and oil to keep industry running at full capacity.
2. India and NZ need fuel for industry.
3. Hawaii needs a few resources and fuel for industry.
Everything else can be used to support operations.

So what happens if you don't keep industry running?
The Allies don't need the HI points, but it means less supply produced by the Heavy Industry factories.
The Supply figures in this table assume industry is running at full capacity so not enough fuel = less supply generated.
Some early AARs I've read recently felt the pain of Australian industry using all the fuel that players wanted to use for naval operations.
I haven't calculated it myself as I just setup tanker convoys to run continuously from Middle East to India, and West Coast to Aus/NZ.
As allies, if you take the approach of keeping your big xAK and TK constantly busy hauling supplies and fuel from Middle East and West Coast then you can't go wrong and will build up stockpiles of both for operations.

[Yaab]

Australia is a bit trickier.

Even if you supply her with oil and fuel to run her HI at full capacity, she has a hidden Resources shortage. She has a daily Resources surplus, but part of her resources production is trapped in the N Australia(Corunna Dawns and Darwin) with no access to the railroad network, while most HI/LI is located in Sydney and its vicinity. You start with a Resources stockpile in Australia, which covers this hidden shortage, and when the stockpile is used up, HI or LI will stop producing supplies on some days.

So, if you want to run the OZ industry at 100% on every day, you either need to move the northern resources by ships to bases with railroads connections (Geraldton, Townsville) or move resources from Tasmania/Noumea to Australia.

[Kull]

Kind of a minor point, but the Soviets do have (damaged) oil centers at Ohka (80) and Petropavlovsk (10). That's enough production to sustain the Refinery (80) in Komsomolsk, but it doesn't matter because the oil can only get to Siberia by ship. And that can't happen because the entire Soviet naval system is frozen until activation.

[jdsrae]

Good points fellas. I’ll cycle back to edit this table and make a chart for the allied industry convoys one day.
IRL a lot of Aussie merchant ships were used to haul iron ore and coal to steel works at places like Whyalla, Newcastle and Port Kembla.
Mostly unescorted due to the lack of ASW capable ships. In game those resources are moved by rail.

The main allied convoys I’d plan better next time are those needed to move land unit reinforcements from off map bases.
Too many times I’ve had units arrive at places like Mombasa or Cape Town and not had the ships their to move them, which wastes a few weeks each time to react.

[Chickenboy]

jdsrae,

I believe the amphibious bonus for Japan extends to the last day of April 1942, not March (in your chart).

[rustysi]

Think the amphibious bonus ends 01MAR42 IIRC. Then again my memory is...

Edit: Correction ends 01 APR 42. Found a good thread for it in a search, but the computer I'm using won't let me copy the link for some reason. It is in the manual, but I can't find it at the moment. So the chart is correct 31 MAR 42 is last day.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Think the amphibious bonus ends 01MAR42 IIRC. Then again my memory is...

Edit: Correction ends 01 APR 42. Found a good thread for it in a search, but the computer I'm using won't let me copy the link for some reason. It is in the manual, but I can't find it at the moment. So the chart is correct 31 MAR 42 is last day.

There was some confusion because the manual said the Japanese have four months before the landing bonus runs out, which would have made it April 07. Actual play proved that April 01 (start of turn) the bonus has ended.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: rustysi
Think the amphibious bonus ends 01MAR42 IIRC. Then again my memory is...

You're right. Your memory is... [:'(]

[durnedwolf]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

The floatplanes on ASW or NavS debate is as old as the game itself.

I'd tend to utilize the FP's on NavS, at it maximizes their best characteristics (range and quantity) while ignores their weaker aspects (poor bombload).

I'd then bolster them with an IJA 2E squadron with ASW trained pilots. The floatplanes find the ship, the bombers send it home or (better yet) sink it.

An over-emphasis on naval search (both day and night) makes sense to me, as a sub with a high DL tends to be attacked by surface ASW assets more regularly. On a more basic level, knowing where a sub is allows you to avoid it completely.

I tend to do the same, with one addition. I use the Ann and Mary for ASW as well. They carry a 250kg bomb and can operate from a level 2 airfield.

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