Mike & Mike - USS America (A) vs. Mike (J)

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
Thanks guys (all of you!) for making me second guess my strategy. My thought was to have 48 Division sit in Clark, along with the other troops and all the artillery they brought along to cut the supply line from Manila to Bataan. Allied supply won't flow through an Allied Clark with Japanese troops sitting in there, will it?

Supply flow will not be cut by just the presence of your troops. You need to control some hexsides to stop the flow. And that control is impossible to get without capturing either Clark or Manila hex. And I doubt 65thbde + tk would be enough to capture Manila from 3-4 Phillipino regiments + 2 usmc tanks.

Also, starting Bataan is maxed out at 32k supply and Allied players usually do not expand the base further, concentrating on forts. Luzon has much more than 32k at the start (60k+ in stock 1), so it is safe to assume Bataan will start maxed out in supplies no matter what you do.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
Thanks guys (all of you!) for making me second guess my strategy. My thought was to have 48 Division sit in Clark, along with the other troops and all the artillery they brought along to cut the supply line from Manila to Bataan. Allied supply won't flow through an Allied Clark with Japanese troops sitting in there, will it?

Supply flow will not be cut by just the presence of your troops. You need to control some hexsides to stop the flow. And that control is impossible to get without capturing either Clark or Manila hex. And I doubt 65thbde + tk would be enough to capture Manila from 3-4 Phillipino regiments + 2 usmc tanks.

Also, starting Bataan is maxed out at 32k supply and Allied players usually do not expand the base further, concentrating on forts. Luzon has much more than 32k at the start (60k+ in stock 1), so it is safe to assume Bataan will start maxed out in supplies no matter what you do.

Yep, I should have known that about hexside control. 16 Division isn't at Mindinao yet. I can always divert it. We'll get there. [:D]

[Uncivil Engineer]

Malaya: The Aussie brigade bombarded my liberators at Mersing getting themselves trashed some more. I’m assaulting tomorrow and have a tank regiment and the 5 Division cav set to pursue. Regardless of where the Aussies retreat to, they’ll follow and cut off Singapore.

They WILL retreat to Johore Bharu, as it's the shortest route to supply (unless you've already occupied it, which I don't think you have, since you can't get there from here, lol).

[Uncivil Engineer]

16 Division isn't at Mindinao yet. I can always divert it. We'll get there.

As others have pointed out, 65 Bde cannot take Manila by itself, but 16 Div can, especially if 48 Div has Clark Field defenders occupied. You have enough AV starting at Babeldaob to take Mindanao, you just don't have the transports to get them there, so 16 Div is available for Luzon. Land them at Mauban after 65 Bde, then send their ships to Babeldaob to load up Mindanao invaders.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Uncivil Engineer

16 Division isn't at Mindinao yet. I can always divert it. We'll get there.

As others have pointed out, 65 Bde cannot take Manila by itself, but 16 Div can, especially if 48 Div has Clark Field defenders occupied. You have enough AV starting at Babeldaob to take Mindanao, you just don't have the transports to get them there, so 16 Div is available for Luzon. Land them at Mauban after 65 Bde, then send their ships to Babeldaob to load up Mindanao invaders.

Good idea. I already have transports enroute to Babeldaob.

[RangerJoe]

Suicidal paratroopers at Jahore Bharu should stop any retreat to that base. [:D]

[jdsrae]

I started looking at what to do with the paras last night as I had cunning plans and clever tricks for them, but they start too far from the action so probably can’t get to Malaya for about a week. One good option I found is Victoria Point to Port Blair. There’s a couple of options in China and on the Burma coast like Akyab once you have Rangoon. I don’t see much need for paras in the Philippines. There are a few more options in the DEI. Shame there is only 1xarmy and 2xnavy para units to start...

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Suicidal paratroopers at Jahore Bharu should stop any retreat to that base. [:D]

[:D] Too late. The turn is already with Mike.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

I started looking at what to do with the paras last night as I had cunning plans and clever tricks for them, but they start too far from the action so probably can’t get to Malaya for about a week. One good option I found is Victoria Point to Port Blair. There’s a couple of options in China and on the Burma coast like Akyab once you have Rangoon. I don’t see much need for paras in the Philippines. There are a few more options in the DEI. Shame there is only 1xarmy and 2xnavy para units to start...

I did the Victoria Point to Pt. Blair in my other game and plan on doing the same in this one.

The Akyab op sounds like a good plan. I never was able to take Akyab in my other game. I'm considering this...

[rustysi]

Thanks guys (all of you!) for making me second guess my strategy.

Hey, whatta friends for.[:D]

Allied supply won't flow through an Allied Clark with Japanese troops sitting in there, will it?

Don't think so, but not sure.

[rustysi]

Good idea with the HQ in Ominato. Never thought of that.

I prefer to push the 5th Fleet HQ further out, like Etorufu(sp?). Its a command HQ with a range of nine and will supply torps.

[RangerJoe]

Allied supply will flow from Manila to Bataan through Clark Field as ling as the relevant hexside control is Allied.

[Lokasenna]

Correct, hex side control is what matters for supply flow - not presence of units.

[jdsrae]

I've just been doing some AA planning so here's some more food for thought as you kick off:
1. AA units don't seem to fire at night unless they have a searchlight and/or sound detector, so this list shows those units that start the game only
2. IJA AA units are cheap in PP to buy out. Bns cost about 13PP, Regts up to 34 each
3. You can plan to bolster your oil field AA defences and other high priority industry by buying out a bunch of AA units pretty cheaply.
4. My current thinking is to leave the Bns at home and send the Regts forward. 1942+ reinforcement AA units can backfill them and that would get your most capable AA units forward to where they will be needed.

The various Field AA units (not shown here) can either keep pace with your field Armies or help boost daytime industry AA defence, but I don't think they will fire at night

[RangerJoe]

Some of the larger base forces have searchlights.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

I've just been doing some AA planning so here's some more food for thought as you kick off:
1. AA units don't seem to fire at night unless they have a searchlight and/or sound detector, so this list shows those units that start the game only
2. IJA AA units are cheap in PP to buy out. Bns cost about 13PP, Regts up to 34 each
3. You can plan to bolster your oil field AA defences and other high priority industry by buying out a bunch of AA units pretty cheaply.
4. My current thinking is to leave the Bns at home and send the Regts forward. 1942+ reinforcement AA units can backfill them and that would get your most capable AA units forward to where they will be needed.

The various Field AA units (not shown here) can either keep pace with your field Armies or help boost daytime industry AA defence, but I don't think they will fire at night

Radar is a big factor for both firing and accuracy. All of the regiments get radar. Some of the battalions also get radar. Radar is cumulative in a hex, and so the other units in hex benefit from the radar of all units that have it. This helps CAP and AA.

Some of the regiments will upgrade tot the 12cm guns. Those are gold.

[jdsrae]

Just checked the electronic devices in the ingame database and Sound Detector(J) upgrade to radar, but there’s no easy way to tell which of about 5 or 6 different radars.
I’ll do some more snooping in the main database file tonight as the TOE upgrade paths should give me the answers.
I would like to know which AA units and base forces get a radar before I send them too far south, and also if any don’t so I can put them somewhere appropriate.
Looks like it could be any of:
1. Type 13 Radar arrives 1/44
2. Ta-Chi 1 Radar 3/42 then upgrades through to the 2,3,4,7 models by 1/43.
3. Some don’t have an upgrade path to a radar so that version of the SD(J) will stay for the whole war
4. Some go directly to a Ta-Chi 6 radar 3/42
5. Some go to Type 2 radar 6/42 then to Type 3 10/43

Any electrical engineers in the house with a PhD in the Japanese orbat?!
It probably also depends on the scenario #.

[awaw]

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

Just checked the electronic devices in the ingame database and Sound Detector(J) upgrade to radar, but there’s no easy way to tell which of about 5 or 6 different radars.
I’ll do some more snooping in the main database file tonight as the TOE upgrade paths should give me the answers.
I would like to know which AA units and base forces get a radar before I send them too far south, and also if any don’t so I can put them somewhere appropriate.
Looks like it could be any of:
1. Type 13 Radar arrives 1/44
2. Ta-Chi 1 Radar 3/42 then upgrades through to the 2,3,4,7 models by 1/43.
3. Some don’t have an upgrade path to a radar so that version of the SD(J) will stay for the whole war
4. Some go directly to a Ta-Chi 6 radar 3/42
5. Some go to Type 2 radar 6/42 then to Type 3 10/43

Any electrical engineers in the house with a PhD in the Japanese orbat?!
It probably also depends on the scenario #.

With regards to #3, Andy once made a database patch that fixed it. This patch is separate from the one in Tech Support, but I can no longer find it. Instead, I mimic it by modifying scenario data to have device 1467 upgrade to 1468. Otherwise a significant % of the Jap radar are effectively useless.


With that single modification, scenario 1 Jap radar becomes:


Radar (Date,Range,Accuracy)
1460(41/12,25,25) => 1461(42/3,45,20) => 1462(42/7,48,25) => 1463(42/10,48,35) => 1464(43/1,75,45) => 1465(43/1,145,45)
1467(41/12,25,10) => 1468(42/7,70,50) => 1469(45/6,100,50)
1470(41/12,25,10) => 1471(42/3,78,45)
1473(41/12,25,10) => 1474(42/6,70,30) => 1475(43/10,100,50)

Do note that range is limited to the hex itself, extra range translates into extra detect chances rather than detecting inbound from further out.

[jdsrae]

ORIGINAL: awaw
With regards to #3, Andy once made a database patch that fixed it. This patch is separate from the one in Tech Support, but I can no longer find it. Instead, I mimic it by modifying scenario data to have device 1467 upgrade to 1468. Otherwise a significant % of the Jap radar are effectively useless.
With that single modification, scenario 1 Jap radar becomes:

Radar (Date,Range,Accuracy)
1460(41/12,25,25) => 1461(42/3,45,20) => 1462(42/7,48,25) => 1463(42/10,48,35) => 1464(43/1,75,45) => 1465(43/1,145,45)
1467(41/12,25,10) => 1468(42/7,70,50) => 1469(45/6,100,50)
1470(41/12,25,10) => 1471(42/3,78,45)
1473(41/12,25,10) => 1474(42/6,70,30) => 1475(43/10,100,50)

Do note that range is limited to the hex itself, extra range translates into extra detect chances rather than detecting inbound from further out.

I've just scrolled through the database on Scenario 1 v1.8.11.26b. I may have missed a patch over the last few years, but in this version/scenario:

1. IJAAF ## Base Forces, all IJA AA Regts and "Defense" AA Bns seem to all follow the radar upgrade path leading to Ta-Chi 7 radars: 1460(41/12,25,25) => 1461(42/3,45,20) => 1462(42/7,48,25) => 1463(42/10,48,35) => 1464(43/1,75,45) => 1465(43/1,145,45)

2. JAAF AF Bns seem to all have the #1467 Sound Detector device which doesn't upgrade (unless you edit the data file). I'm not sure that's an "error" as historically up to 4 x JAAF Bns were typically subordinate to each JAAF Base Force (i.e. Air Sector HQ) and those units will upgrade to receive a radar.
Also, quick google research shows the Ta-Chi 13 to be an "Aircraft Guidance System" rather than an Early Warning Device, so perhaps it was more like a navigation aid for friendly aircraft?
I personally won't choose to edit the data file based on the above. I'm happy for now just knowing that the JAAF AF Bns won't get their own radar and I need to deploy them accordingly, but I am about to check if I've got the latest beta!

3. [Place name] JAAF Base Forces follow this path to get Ta-Chi 6 radars: 1470(41/12,25,10) => 1471(42/3,78,45)

4. IJN Base Forces and all JNAF AF Units follow this path to get Type 2 then Type 3 radars: 1473(41/12,25,10) => 1474(42/6,70,30) => 1475(43/10,100,50)

5. Note that "Independent" IJA AA Bns and a few IJN Special Base Forces, Static Base Forces and Kure/Yokosuka Base Forces don't have a radar device slot in their TOE.

Summary for Mike if he wasn't already aware, is that by 3/42 the Army units (less JAAF AF Bns) can start upgrading to real radars. IJN units get radars from 6/42.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

Summary for Mike if he wasn't already aware, is that by 3/42 the Army units (less JAAF AF Bns) can start upgrading to real radars. IJN units get radars from 6/42.

Thanks. I knew it was somewhere around there, but didn't know the exact date. I'm prone to checking for upgrades often.

Yep, follow the Sapper, but at a distance. They're scary. Lots of things explode around them. [:D]