Germany at War - Soviet Dawn

[ErissN6]

ORIGINAL: Ronald Wendt
When can we expect update 09 depends on many factors, there is no rigid date as of yet.
1.09 could be finished as soon as Mai/June, given there are no huge requests for new equipment or any time consuming features.
For example i could activate feature, but doing all stuff around it would take some time (vessel graphics, icons etc.) to have it for all nations.
The basic question is, a fast 1.09 release or a sound on with many features.
i have no idea how many are actually eagerly waiting for the 1.09 release.

About me, I'm eager to play the old basic game! As I already said, what prevented me is the UI was not enough readable for my taste.
So, if what is ready at now for 1.09 is improving it, I'm all for an immediate release, moreover I don't want at now a new feature which UI is not complete ready (I prefer it for 1.10).

[terminator]

ORIGINAL: ErissN6
About me, I'm eager to play the old basic game! As I already said, what prevented me is the UI was not enough readable for my taste.
So, if what is ready at now for 1.09 is improving it, I'm all for an immediate release, moreover I don't want at now a new feature which UI is not complete ready (I prefer it for 1.10).

What it is the "old basic game" ?

[AngrySwan]

There are several versions of this game. 1.04, 1.05, 1.06, 1.07 and 1.08.

As far as I know, you can run several parallel installations of different versions. It gets tricky with savegames if you switch between versions, you needd to put all savegames elsewhere so they do not interfere with a different version, but otherwise there is no problem running old versions.

I also sometimes run version 1.05 for nostalgia reasons, to have the old ''all grey squares interface'' and the ability to move panzers in the snow.

It all depends on what others think. If you are happy with the 1941 campaign with Kharkov and Bryansk included, I could finish it his weekend.
Tula would then be available in April after Easter.

I will always upload the new versions of 1941 campaign to the Mods section, so if you have any suggestions for improvements just let me know.

[Ronald Wendt]

hi folks,

in the DesignModProject.de forum two guys favoured a late release with more content, terminator wants it fast. AngrySwan is neutral as ErissN6 is somewhat.

So we have opionions all over the place. But there is an interesting point.

Many of the more time consuming extras where adressed by you, terminator. E.g. the exit hex right in this thread.
Which means i could aim at the early release while balancing it out with your requests by discussing with you.


@ErissN6:
Which GUI changes do you mean ? I improved the one you mentioned elsewhere in the forum, was there anything besides that ?

@AngrySwan:
Do you think the winter rules after 1.05 are not good ? Or do both version have their advantages ?

Regards,

[terminator]

ORIGINAL: AngrySwan
I also sometimes run version 1.05 for nostalgia reasons... and the ability to move panzers in the snow.

I agree with AngrySwan, winter rules after 1.05 are not good, this makes some of the tanks unusable.
If we remove moving points to some tanks that already have few, it makes them almost stationary.

[AngrySwan]

Hi Ronald,

Winter rules are not bad but look unfinished to me. I can accept the fact that tanks are slow movers and big fuel eaters. In my 1941 campaign tanks are used as reserve/last attack force in Mozhaisk scenario and not used at all in Moscow scenario. Moscow scenario must be challenging and tanks are not the best units for bunker busting and street fighting anyway. But if tanks are slow, trucks and halftracks should also be slow. In Moscow scenario I use a house rule ''everyone can move only on green hexes.'' If you could program this rule into the game I would be happy with winter rules.

Also, the recon cars are very fast in the snow and Pz IIIH is much faster than all other tanks and StuG III.

There is an option in the editor ''Apply or not apply winter rules'' but it seems to have no effect on the move. I was thinking about snow scenarios with winter rules turned off but it does not work that way.

The new winter rules can be kept in game with these changes:
- slower recon cars (maybe half of the current speed),
- same movement for Pz IIIH and J (I guess this has been overlooked and can be easily fixed),
- transport trucks and halftracks move as if there was no snow. Is there a way to reduce their move but leave the same number of ''blue'' hexes for them?

1.08 has its advantages, the system just needs to be finished. Either one set of rules or the other one, right now there is a mix of both.

What I like in 1.05 is the old style of menu interface but that is a different theme, and maybe not so important.

[ErissN6]

ORIGINAL: Ronald Wendt
Which GUI changes do you mean ? I improved the one you mentioned elsewhere in the forumpresent

Yes this one, and by "old version" I meant present 1.08

[terminator]

ORIGINAL: AngrySwan

Hi Ronald,

Winter rules are not bad but look unfinished to me. I can accept the fact that tanks are slow movers and big fuel eaters. In my 1941 campaign tanks are used as reserve/last attack force in Mozhaisk scenario and not used at all in Moscow scenario. Moscow scenario must be challenging and tanks are not the best units for bunker busting and street fighting anyway. But if tanks are slow, trucks and halftracks should also be slow. In Moscow scenario I use a house rule ''everyone can move only on green hexes.'' If you could program this rule into the game I would be happy with winter rules.

Also, the recon cars are very fast in the snow and Pz IIIH is much faster than all other tanks and StuG III.

There is an option in the editor ''Apply or not apply winter rules'' but it seems to have no effect on the move. I was thinking about snow scenarios with winter rules turned off but it does not work that way.

The new winter rules can be kept in game with these changes:
- slower recon cars (maybe half of the current speed),
- same movement for Pz IIIH and J (I guess this has been overlooked and can be easily fixed),
- transport trucks and halftracks move as if there was no snow. Is there a way to reduce their move but leave the same number of ''blue'' hexes for them?

1.08 has its advantages, the system just needs to be finished. Either one set of rules or the other one, right now there is a mix of both.

What I like in 1.05 is the old style of menu interface but that is a different theme, and maybe not so important.

Will the game still be playable in winter?

Almost all the units are at risk of being immobilised while waiting for the thaw but for me the worst is not the snow it is the Raspoutitsa !

Winter rules -> reduce movement wheels: reco & truck(transport)

[AngrySwan]

The idea that cnhange of seasons and winter slows down move is not bad - the question is how much.

In 1941 campaign I avoided the problem by using tanks only as reserve (moving on roads) in Mozhaisk scenario and not using them at all in Moscow scenario. Not only because of slow move but also because of fuel consumption. AG Center in 1941 campaign is a real monster (after Epic Vjasma scenario was made) and after upkeeping all other units I just cannot afford to refuel tanks for three times the price.

There are two questions:
- Can you make any winter advances at all? (like Wintergewitter and Third Kharkov)
- Can you do in game what the German army did historically? Is it possible to reach Kharkov and Belgorod on time?

There is one problem with the new rules as they are, tanks have the same speed on road as in the field but men are faster on road than off road. If the new winter rules gave tanks 50% of the normal speed on road, would that solve the problem?

[terminator]

ORIGINAL: AngrySwan
There is one problem with the new rules as they are, tanks have the same speed on road as in the field but men are faster on road than off road. If the new winter rules gave tanks 50% of the normal speed on road, would that solve the problem?

We only have one type of road. It looks like a "paved road"(40% of rural villages were not served by paved roads in Soviet Union).
A tank should always be able to move more easily on a paved road than on open ground.

[AngrySwan]

They still found dirt roads in post-war Poland for making the ''Four Tankmen and a Dog'' series, and that was end of 1960s. So I can imaqgine what happened in Soviet countryside in 1940s.

So if tanks moved 6 hexes on a road would that be better? That is how much Pz IIIH makes in 1.08 and I would say it is quite fast for winter.

The standalone Typhoon scenario has a limit of 50 units for Germany and the same number of Soviet units as the campaign scenario. If I raise the limit for German units to 50 in the campaign scenario we could be back to tanks in winter of 1941.

[Ronald Wendt]

Hi folks,

a revision of the winter/movement rules is on the list. I have some ideas which i want to test first before i talk about it.

[klhbekool]

Thanks Ronald, I can't wait to start Soviet Dawn!!!

[terminator]

ORIGINAL: klhbekool

Thanks Ronald, I can't wait to start Soviet Dawn!!!

I guess that means you prefer a fast 1.09 release than waiting longer for many features ?

[klhbekool]

LOL, I can wait for the finished product. I have been playing this game since it was first released and I can wait a little bit longer. Just be prepared for.... Is it finished yet? Is it it finished yet?

[terminator]

ORIGINAL: Ronald Wendt

Hi folks,

a revision of the winter/movement rules is on the list. I have some ideas which i want to test first before i talk about it.

Hi Ronald,

Could you give more information about the new winter/movement rules ?

[AngrySwan]

Hi Ronald,

It will be important for Moscow mission which is mostly infantry job but there could be a couple of panzers on the roads if they can move at all.
Also, the first attack on Tula was made by 3rd and 4th panzer divisions and Grossdeutschland regiment so the panzers must either be close enough to the city to attack it on October 29 or, if they have a longer move, they could be further away.

[Ronald Wendt]

Hi folks,

the idea i have in mind is simple: the movement points and the movement costs will be multiplied by 10 for ground actions. This gives us room for more subtle movement costs which hopefully will ease the burden of the panzers while still making a difference for the types and the different tracks, which was the goal in the first place.

So if you have costs of -11 (instead of the normal -10) then you will have one less hex for values beneath 120 (e.g. a tank with former 12 MPs) and two hexes less for greater values. With the old values it would be a rigid number for MPs so either -1 or -2 which would be exactly the hexes you get less every time.

It should guarantee a minimum of mobility while limiting the maximum range in a better way.

Actually this would be something where i could use your direct help by beta testing this feature so we can adjust/judge it together.

[klhbekool]

Ronald, that is a great idea!!!!!!!!

[AngrySwan]

Hi Ronald,

I would need to see how it works in the field.
It is not so important for 1941 but can make big difference in scenarios of 1942-1943.