BrianG v. HYLA (no hard luck)

[BrianG]

my first attack against a Guards infantry corp.

here is the lineup. Clearly HYLA was hoping to keep his units on the west side of this river. It's way too early for that Russian immovable bridgehead bull crude.

[BrianG]

and the victory. A loss would have been quite demoralizing

[BrianG]

and then I use over 600 afv to reclaim the west side of the river.

Is morale boost from victories only for those units attached to the 'lead' attack general?

[BrianG]

south Moscow final

[BrianG]

final Leningrad.

Only thing holding me back from mission success is mud. Will he put up defense at the river line. So far only weak units

panzers had to hold the front line, infantry stretched as far as could walk

[BrianG]

final Kursk.

[BrianG]

final south

I jam in tanks just north of Vorosilovgrad. I would like to lunge east south east and cause Russian retreat of troops facing Stalino. thereby paving way to take Rostov

[BrianG]

the casualties

[BrianG]

clear skies over Leningrad. Russian launches attack out of pocket.

Which causes me to think " has he been hiding major forces in city waiting to cut off my thrust NE"

I answer. Nope. He's trapped and lashing out like a caged lion. Vatutin is spotted in the city.

[BrianG]

I lose VV to an offensive reserve activation.

further south is more air attacks

[BrianG]

overall a light Russian air turn

[BrianG]

maybe my fighters are so damaged he is waiting till I have more in the field before reattacking.

[M60A3TTS]

Interesting that as of that turn Soviet air losses are only about 600 aircraft less than the Soviet 8MP game.

[ledo]

I just checked because that is weird, but then i realized a whopping 9000 additional planes were lost on the ground in the 8MP, which really put that number into perspective. I guess the small difference is a matter of you lose the planes either way, its just a question of whether they do anything before they are destroyed. The lower production might also be affecting the numbers, plus HLYA's use of U2VS's.

Just to save time for anyone wanting to compare:

8 MP / BG vs HLYA

Air Combat 5158 / 6218
Flak 896 / 5916
On Ground 12540 / 2928
Operational 3671 / 5780

It's interesting that the flak losses are so much higher even though it seems Brian G puts a lot less effort into the air war and placement of flak (it seems, I might be wrong).

Edit: Sorry the 8MP is turn 54, and the BG vs HLYA is 53 so its slightly off.

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Interesting that as f that turn Soviet air losses are only about 600 aircraft less than the Soviet 8MP game.

This is quite an intersting comparison to make and puts the 8MP into perspective. Perhaps the 8MP losses are not so catastrophic?

It should be said that Axis single seat fighter losses in 8MP are about half, whereas Soviet F/FB losses are about 3,500 higher. Added to this are the several thousand fighters that were never made due to bombing the fighter bomber factories and their subsequent evacuation, plus the outright loss of one fighter factory at Taganrog to ground forces, which although not showing up in the loss figures impact the Soviet fighter arm just as well. So in terms of balance of fighter strength 8MP is much more lopsided - and what you are prepared to do with fighters is also impacted by the fact that the 8MP Axis side has many hundreds in the pools so can take risks whereas the Soviet side could not.

By my own track and according to posts by M60A3TTS the 8MP Soviet bomber arm is in very decent shape - but has simply not been used because of the fighter situation. I guess it would be preferable to have lost many more bombers while doing their job than sitting on an airbase. In key battles, especially in the final capture of Moscow, the 8MP Axis side had hundreds of stukas flying freely and unintercepted whereas the Soviet side had no air component at all. I think the real measure of the air war is in how it has impacted the ground war - and I believe it has substantially and especially in key points.

In terms of flak the 8MP game was started in v1.10. Althought the version has been updated to incorporate the buffs to flak performance, the scenario data remains the same and as such there are far fewer flak guns than in later versions of the game. M60A3TTS and a few others will be better able to give the background on this one - but I guess that explains the flak difference?

The 8MP game has also had far more of the losses in the reconnaisance area. This is deliberate from the Axis side - and from an Axis perspective does not matter very much as they always have lots of spare recon. For similar reasons the Soviet side here may not care a lot about the nearly 1k of U2VS it has lost either.

[BrianG]

I counterattack his Leningrad thrust.

routs

[BrianG]

Mud hinders the northern most troops.

A mud attack succeeds

I also bomb the port and get to 5% damage.

[BrianG]

down south a small tank battle

[BrianG]

final south. I am trying to head east and force a Russian withdrawal. I am light on forces needed.

[BrianG]

I switch out my 17th army hq for Weiss