p40 vs zero the debate continues!

[crsutton]

Here is a link to a good article on the p40 vs the zero debate. Pretty well written and thought out-although I think the kill ratios are distorted in some of the action reports. I think the P40, (and wildcat for that matter) are a bit undermodeled vs the zero in game terms. Good looks and nimbleness aside, the zero just had too many fatal design flaws.

Just my two cents.

[crsutton]

Here is a link to a good article on the p40 vs the zero debate. Pretty well written and thought out-although I think the kill ratios are distorted in some of the action reports. I think the P40, (and wildcat for that matter) are a bit undermodeled vs the zero in game terms. Good looks and nimbleness aside, the zero just had too many fatal design flaws.

Just my two cents.

Oh yes, it would be a good ideal to include the link

www.chuckhawks.com/p-40_vs_zero.htm

[Drongo]

Where exactly is the P-40 undermodeled vs the Zero? The UV stats seem to be about right given the limited number of ratings modeled.

P-40: Good firepower, average manuever, good speed and durability with a bit of armour.
A6M: Average firepower, excellent manuever, average speed and low durability with no armour.

Since UV will allow experienced P-40 squadrons with a good leader to attempt to use the historical tactics mentioned in the article, it should (in theory) mean that the better P-40 squadrons can match the top line Zero units and better those with equivalent pilots.

However, its hard to compare exactly what is going on in UV's P-40 vs A6M battles due to the influence of fatigue, morale and the normally greater numbers of a/c in play.

[crsutton]

Where exactly is the P-40 undermodeled vs the Zero? The UV stats seem to be about right given the limited number of ratings modeled.

P-40: Good firepower, average manuever, good speed and durability with a bit of armour.
A6M: Average firepower, excellent manuever, average speed and low durability with no armour.

Since UV will allow experienced P-40 squadrons with a good leader to attempt to use the historical tactics mentioned in the article, it should (in theory) mean that the better P-40 squadrons can match the top line Zero units and better those with equivalent pilots.

However, its hard to compare exactly what is going on in UV's P-40 vs A6M battles due to the influence of fatigue, morale and the normally greater numbers of a/c in play.

Well, your are on the money as far as ratings go, and really the large number of planes involved in game terms is not very historical, so it is hard to gauge. However, I am finding that in large airbattles. (my opponnent favors massive zero sweeps) that I am losing planes on a 3-1 basis.

I really do not know the status of my opponents zeros. We have a mirror game going and based on his losses to date compared to mine as the Japanese player, I am guessing that his zeros are flying in the upper 60 to upper 70 skill level, while my planes are in the low 60s to low 70s. He ran two 150-200 plane sweeps to Nevea where I opposed him with about 100-120 wildcats and p40s.

I lost over 100 planes in the two combats and he lost about 35-of which only half were shot down in combat and the rest were operational losses due to the distance covered. Most of my losses were combat losses, which really gives him a higher than 3-1 kill rate.

Once again, I don't know his morale and fatigue status but I can't imagine it much different them mine as we are both operating out of malaria bases. Average fatigue per squadron about 15 and morale in the 60-80 range. My point here is that the combat results between zeros and wildcats just does not seem right (as well as the excessive losses)

As an added note, If your opponent tried this with you. The best defense is to ground your fighters and let him fly the sweep. My opponent flew two more sweeps over the island with no results but a few crashed zeros. Meanwhile, I was reconning Lunga and knew that he had few bombers there. After his sweep, I knew that his zeros would have to be fatigued and that he would most likely be resting them. I sent a massive medium bomber raid at low level as well as 70 heavies at high and wiped out about 30 zeros on the ground. Needless to say, I was unopposed.

This is an effective tactic but really, I would expect that putting up wildcats and p40s in those numbers over my own base would have better results. Of course, I know that when I get some second generation fighters, things will reverse.

The only real gripe, I have is with the large battles. Smaller actions with 10-50 planes have very realistic results. Just a quirk I guess.

[Drongo]

The only real gripe, I have is with the large battles. Smaller actions with 10-50 planes have very realistic results. Just a quirk I guess.

I know the situation you are talking about. I'll bring it up in the development forums when (ever) we next get around to testing the air combat model in WitP.

Cheers