ARSTAVIDIOS vs ZEMKE

[Arstavidios]

We're currently playing turn 187 so here comes a brief AAR about the game.
The objectives for the 1941 campaign were to prioritize the objectives on a North / south line
Leningrad first, then Moscow then the south. I decided not to go for an extended lvov opening on turn 1 to keep to a more historical opening. Settings were normal winter advanced CV math.

Some General organization lines were set up from turn 1.
Each infantry army would be made of 4 corps.
Each infantry corp would have 4 divisions
support units would be 3 artillery 1 flak 1 pioneer per corp nebelwerfer, assault guns and other support allocated on an on need basis.
all construction batallions at corp level would be moved at army level and army HQs would be used for rail repairs.

elite infantry divisions would be concentrated to make 4 corps. those 4 corps would be initially assigned to AGN for the push on leningrad.

for the panzers
each corp would be made of two panzer divisions and a motorized divisions.
Same allocation of support units as for the infantry corps.

Panzer groups contain only panzer corps and infantry armies only infantry.

The SS divisions would be grouped together in a corp and allocated to PZG 3. their role would be to support the advance on leningrad, then shift on moscow.

PZG1. in the south would have 3 panzer corps.

those are the general organisational lines and it took several turns to get things organised.

Security divisions were allocated for garrison purpose. Each occupied city got a fortified zone. This would help with garrison level and fort levels.

Allied armies would be organised along similar lines.
AGN would be supported by one finish army.

In the south, 6th army would be associated to the hungarians, 17th an 11th army would be supported by one rumanian army each.

[Arstavidios]

Turn 1
Panzers went over the border.
the organizational lines started to be applied. I try the auto reasignement function for the support unit to get them to okh and save some APS. Not sur that's the best way of doing things and in the end i did most of it manually anyway.
In the north, i did not attack riga on turn 1
In the center I did not take bret litovk on turn 1 i prefered to have the garrison surrender on turn 2
in the south i did not go for an extended lvov.

Losses for turn 1 were 7205 german for 125416 soviet

On turn 2 riga and brest litovsk were captured.
turn 3 chernovtsy and minsk
turn 4 velikie luki talinn and pskov
turn 5 vivitsa and cherkassy
turn 7 odessa vitebsk mogilev
turn 8 novgorod kiev krivoi rog nikolaev

by turn 8 overall losses were 151802 axis for 1513176 soviet

[Repsol]

Hello...

The overloading of the command capacity when it comes to the infantry armies...Is that intentional ? if so, what's your thinking behind this ?

The command capacity of german armies in 41 are 24 as far as i know. Having 4 corps with 4 divitions each will result in the armies commanding troops to a value of 32. That's 8 points above maximum command capacity and will mean reduced effectiveness of those armies.

After reading other AARs and other posts on this forum i have come to the understanding that the player should if possible do their best to not overload armies and corps in particular...

[Zemke]

Those turns are too painful to remember. I do remember I felt like I was getting out maneuvered at will, and I was. By the time I realized Leningrad (about turn 3 or 4) was the main target, it was too late.

My Command structure was a total mess, and stayed a huge mess well into 1942. As the Russians, get organized early and try and stay that way. It is harder than it sounds.

[MattFL]

As the Russians, get organized early and try and stay that way. It is harder than it sounds.

+1

Spend the AP to normalize command and build effective armies, not on SU's you don't need anyway....

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Zemke

Those turns are too painful to remember. I do remember I felt like I was getting out maneuvered at will, and I was. By the time I realized Leningrad (about turn 3 or 4) was the main target, it was too late.

My Command structure was a total mess, and stayed a huge mess well into 1942. As the Russians, get organized early and try and stay that way. It is harder than it sounds.

I know this will sound counter-intuitive to what you wrote above. But I pretty much leave Soviet commanders in place now where they are without replacing them. Don't get me wrong I replace maybe 2 or 3 but that is about it now. I will use command points to get under command limits but the commanders are pretty much hands off and will stay there until maybe late 41 or 42 on most of the battlefield unless it is a dire need for a change.

[thedoctorking]

I tend to agree with HLYA. One thing you can do is put your good commanders into the new armies you get, especially the four shock armies that appear in fall 1941. Then, staff those armies with your cavalry corps and other good units and use them to pound the Axis during the winter. They might get to be Guards armies if you're lucky, even if not, they can really help your offensive with the additional morale boost.

[Zemke]

The lesson I was trying to impart, was the organization of the Armies, and not over loading the fronts and Armies, (which I learned from Doc). I wasted a lot of AP on stuff all through 41-42 that after looking back on it was not really necessary at the time, Command changes were one of those, along with building too many SU too soon, changing plane types, changing HQ assignments and on and on. Just my advice to new Soviet players playing a human, husband your AP like gold, and spend only on critical have too things. One of those maybe putting a really good Command in charge of the Army facing the main German attack. I am just saying it is different for each game, each person, just do not waste them. The really big thing I found AP helped me with, was when Infantry Corps became available in Spring 42. Those Corps saved me from a very rough 1942 campaign. But I will let Arstavidios get to that point in this AAR.