Upset with Matrix Credit Card Policy

[Rebel Yell]

ORIGINAL: Blond_Knight


Our relationship is with you, not bluesnap.

This is it in a nutshell. When you tell the customer it's their problem because you're not Bluesnap, that's not only bad business, but fraudulent.

A purchase made from your company makes you completely liable, no matter what indemnification your third party business partner may provide you behind the scenes.

[76mm]

I always pay with a credit card but still don't want fraudulent charges... First, why should I be OK with my credit card company picking up the tab for BlueSnap's/Matrix's shoddy credit card security practices? Second, I have zero interest in spending a couple of hours on the phone with my credit card company sorting out false charges...

I also don't understand why Matrix would continue to use a service provide like this... They are saving credit card numbers even when customers check a box saying that they should not. Most credit card payment processors figured out how to do this circa 1999--and yet BlueSnap still hasn't figured it out twenty years later? That's scary--this is not rocket surgery--if they can't figure out how to stop saving credit cards when they say they won't, how can you trust them to do anything right, including securing their own site? I sure wouldn't want the future of my company depending on whether BlueSnap could secure itself from hackers...

Then there is the question of GDPR, Europe's relatively new consumer data privacy law. I'm not an expert on the topic, but I would certainly think that BlueSnap, and perhaps Matrix, could be liable to customers for false statements about which consumer data is saved by the company. Again, I'm no expert, but as far as I know violations of GDPR can lead to huge fines, not to mention the ensuing poor publicity.

[IainMcNeil]

We're going to make sure this cant happen with our new website design we'll be rolling out soon, but we are going to try and find a way to prevent Bluesnap storing them on the current site as we'll do it in a different way. This is not so easy as there is no setting to toggle off to prevent them doing it so we're checking whats possible. All I can say is it is not us storing it and we don't want the info stored.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: IainMcNeil
All I can say is it is not us storing it and we don't want the info stored.

But it is being stored, by a vendor selected and retained by you. I don't care that you are not storing it, or that you don't want it stored--I want my info to NOT BE STORED by the vendor that you have selected.

It really doesn't trouble you that Bluesnap cannot figure out how, or does not care, to not store sensitive credit card information that that they are telling YOUR customers that they are not storing? Honestly I find that astounding.

[vonRocko]

I agree 76mm. Despite unchecking the save card button on a recent purchase, they saved it anyhow, against my wish. It's possibly criminal on bluesnaps' end.

[Chickenboy]

76mm and vonRocko-I agree with your perspective. If you're not getting satisfaction from the vendor or Matrix, have you considered going to your card issuer? Visa, MasterCard or AMEX may have a different viewpoint about this. After all, such flagrant security invites CC abuse / hacking and besmirches their good name when it occurs. On a related note, what do you think would happen to an online vendor's sales if they got cut off at the knees by the card company themselves?

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
Visa, MasterCard or AMEX may have a different viewpoint about this. After all, such flagrant security invites CC abuse / hacking and besmirches their good name when it occurs.

I would guess that this type of behavior violates any agreements that would exist between BlueSnap and the credit card companies, but dunno. And the credit card companies would be less worried about their good name being besmirched than the fact that at least for US customers, they themselves would be liable for any false charges arising from BlueSnap's pathetic, 1990s-era security lapses. Given BlueSnap's and Matrix's apparent indifference to this issue (this has been going on for YEARS!), however, it might be time to raise it with Visa.

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
On a related note, what do you think would happen to an online vendor's sales if they got cut off at the knees by the card company themselves?

Well, frankly I don't have too much interest in shutting down my main source of computer wargames, although I think it more likely that Matrix would be harmed when/if BlueSnap implodes after a hacking attack. Like I've said before, if BlueSnap can't figure out how to not save credit card info, would you really trust them to secure their own site? I certainly would not.

It's not like there aren't literally thousands of other credit card payment processors, so I'm mystified why Matrix would stick with these clowns. The only reason I can think of is that customer security is not very important to them. Sad...

[Yogi the Great]

Disclaimer: No I don't know why my credit card has been hacked multiple times

I have one credit card that has now been hacked three times (each time I have to get new cards with a new number)

Coincidently each time it was hacked, shortly before I had made a purchase from Matrix/BlueSnap for a game.

No, I can't say that they were the hack/leak of my card information but it does make you worry about how the hackers got the number. Gas pump skimmer? Waitress at a restaurant? A different vendor? In the last case I asked for my information to be deleted and after going through the routine was advised that Bluesnap deleted it. Within 2 days the card was apparently hacked and charges made on it not by me.

Have to admit that while I do plan to buy again, (yes I'm addicted) I have already passed on the purchase of two games from Matrix out of concern that my data may not be safe.

[MadmanRick]

Coincidently each time it was hacked, shortly before I had made a purchase from Matrix/BlueSnap for a game.

And this means exactly nothing. I have been a Matrix customer for over 15 years and I have purchased close to 50 games from their stores, not ONCE have my card details been hacked from Matrix or their processor, that I can pinpoint. I have had my details stolen from a USPS pos reader and many other places, but not once from here. I get it you don't want your details stored, that's your right even if I think it's being a bit over-the-top.

But, if that's the case why haven't you looked into other ways to buy the games you want. You could use Steam? Maybe they don't store your details? You could get a Visa gift card and use it only for this purchase, viola, let them store away and good luck if the details are compromised. You could use Paypal, I have never had a bad transaction through them and I buy stuff ALL the time through eBay (over 5000 transactions). The point is that until they make a secure payment method that is truly unhackable and unable to be compromised, this is a sad fact of life. The other point as I mentioned I have had my cards (yes, plural) hacked many times, I have never suffered a loss in terms of actual $$$. The USPS pos hack I mentioned above, the scum got me for $3700 through my debit card. USAA not only replaced the loss of all $$$, they also overnighted me a card (for free) as I was on business in Washington D.C. at the time. So anyway, just my .02 cents worth.

[Yogi the Great]

Well MadmanRick I guess we are pretty close in our support of Matrix.

I have purchased 46 games from them so far. Thou protest too much.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: MadmanRick
But, if that's the case why haven't you looked into other ways to buy the games you want. You could use Steam?...You could get a Visa gift card and use it only for this purchase, viola, let them store away and good luck if the details are compromised. You could use Paypal...

Sure, or I could use Bitcoin, or sacks of tea.

Or, perhaps Matrix and their selected service provider could provide a basic feature of online purchasing that every other online vendor I've encountered has offered since about 1997. Is that really such a big ask? Again, if Matrix were not one of the only providers of quality wargames I would have stopped purchasing here years ago.

[Crossroads]

I use PayPal, as I refuse to have any site to store my credit card on their servers. This includes Matrix Slitherine. I have never used and will never use my credit card here. And it has nothing to do with Matrix Slitherine as such. It is just such a careless thing to do. And I won't do it.

[Franciscus]

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

I use PayPal, as I refuse to have any site to store my credit card on their servers. This includes Matrix Slitherine. I have never used and will never use my credit card here. And it has nothing to do with Matrix Slitherine as such. It is just such a careless thing to do. And I won't do it.

+1

Unless there is absolutely no other option I always use PayPal when buying online. Never had a problem.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Crossroads
I use PayPal, as I refuse to have any site to store my credit card on their servers.

Correct me if I am wrong, but to fund Paypay you have to link it to your bank account? I've looked at using Paypal in the past but would rather take the credit card risk than risking linking a payment method directly to my bank account: if there are false charges on my credit card, at least in the US odds are good that it will be the credit card company's problem at the end of the day. If there is a false withdrawal from my bank account via Paypal, I suspect that it would be my problem.

Moreover, I had a real problem with Paypal about ten years ago when they froze my account for no reason and made me jump through a bunch of hoops to unfreeze it. I have generally avoided Paypal since then.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: Crossroads
I use PayPal, as I refuse to have any site to store my credit card on their servers.

Correct me if I am wrong, but to fund Paypay you have to link it to your bank account? I've looked at using Paypal in the past but would rather take the credit card risk than risking linking a payment method directly to my bank account: if there are false charges on my credit card, at least in the US odds are good that it will be the credit card company's problem at the end of the day. If there is a false withdrawal from my bank account via Paypal, I suspect that it would be my problem.

Moreover, I had a real problem with Paypal about ten years ago when they froze my account for no reason and made me jump through a bunch of hoops to unfreeze it. I have generally avoided Paypal since then.

Nah. You can link PayPal to a credit card and not involve a bank account per se. I don't know if you can link PayPal to a Debit card. If you did so, that would be a de facto connection to your bank account, so I wouldn't do that personally.

[Crossroads]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: Crossroads
I use PayPal, as I refuse to have any site to store my credit card on their servers.

Correct me if I am wrong, but to fund Paypay you have to link it to your bank account? I've looked at using Paypal in the past but would rather take the credit card risk than risking linking a payment method directly to my bank account: if there are false charges on my credit card, at least in the US odds are good that it will be the credit card company's problem at the end of the day. If there is a false withdrawal from my bank account via Paypal, I suspect that it would be my problem.

Moreover, I had a real problem with Paypal about ten years ago when they froze my account for no reason and made me jump through a bunch of hoops to unfreeze it. I have generally avoided Paypal since then.

Correct in that you either have to link it to your bank account or store your credit card there.

On my post I meant to write that if the only option to pay was to store a credit card, or PayPal, then I use PayPal instead, PayPal being the only external service having my credit card info. (Well, Apple has it as well as there's no option [:(] )

Sorry to hear about your troubles with them, I've not had any, knocks on wood.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
Nah. You can link PayPal to a credit card and not involve a bank account per se.

I will look at this again, but last time I checked (a few months ago?) I could have sworn that the only option was to link my bank account. But as said, I will look again.

[Crossroads]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
Nah. You can link PayPal to a credit card and not involve a bank account per se.

I will look at this again, but last time I checked (a few months ago?) I could have sworn that the only option was to link my bank account. But as said, I will look again.

You can link one or the other as minimum, or both if you prefer. I recall if you linked an actual bank account then sending money to your friends is done without any additional cost from there.

[76mm]

Just had some fraudulent charges on my card for the first time, had to cancel and spend lots of time resolving stuff.

While this may or may not have anything to do with Bluesnap and Matrix, it certainly demonstrates the importance of doing whatever possible to secure customers' credit card data. So what news on this, Matrix?

[Skoach]

I use virtual credit cards for all online and voice purchases. They are easy to use and can be set with specific limits and expirations. For example, If I purchase $100 worth of stuff from a online site I create a card for exactly $100 and a short expiration. Charge goes on my main card account, but the number never goes out andif stolen is useless based on my preset limits and expiration for that purchase. Several major card issuers off this service (BoA, Citi, and Capital One that I know of).

Additional info can be found online using the google machine.