Combat load - supplies loaded

[Yaab]

The LIGHT manual says , page 123:

A minimum amount of supply, equivalent to three days consumption,
is required to be loaded with each unit. This is added to the equipment
cost of the unit during allocation so that space will be reserved for
it.

ENDQUOTE

I lost my game saves, but I remember that I loaded the Indp Company in Darwin on an Amphibious TF, chose "load troops only" option, and instead of three days supply being loaded, the code loaded the equivalent of three weeks supply. The LCU screen prior to loading said the Indp Company needs i.e 100 supplies and exactly 100 supplies was loaded. There was no reduction of supplies loaded. Can anyone confirm this?

[btd64]

Hi Yaab. do you have a screen shot to post? I have seen this and I learned to keep an eye open for it and stop the loading if it happens....GP

[Yaab]

No, lost the screenie too.

[GetAssista]

Sure, manual is wrong in this part. I always took it as a given, who in their right mind will go to sea with only 3 days of food...
Standard infantry division takes around 1.5-2k supplies with it when "load troops only" is checked

[RangerJoe]

Food is not the only thing that the unit needs. It also needs ammo, medical supplies and other items. Remember that the job is not done until the paperwork is finished, whether it comes from Georgia Pacific or Charmin.

But the most important item for any unit to have is its Class VI supplies:



I don't think that any unit ever really has enough Class VI supplies. Really, I don't.

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
But the most important item for any unit to have is its Class VI supplies:

Ah, was not aware of that classification. Now that I do I finally understand what Private 1 Class means [:D]

[geofflambert]

I often use "load troops only" if they're going to a friendly port that already has plenty of supply or if supply is on the way there already. I especially use it when the port I'm loading them at is not a supply source or connected to one by rail.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Yaab

The LIGHT manual says , page 123:

A minimum amount of supply, equivalent to three days consumption,
is required to be loaded with each unit. This is added to the equipment
cost of the unit during allocation so that space will be reserved for
it.

ENDQUOTE

I lost my game saves, but I remember that I loaded the Indp Company in Darwin on an Amphibious TF, chose "load troops only" option, and instead of three days supply being loaded, the code loaded the equivalent of three weeks supply. The LCU screen prior to loading said the Indp Company needs i.e 100 supplies and exactly 100 supplies was loaded. There was no reduction of supplies loaded. Can anyone confirm this?

I believe the 100 supplies loaded on the TF is over and above what the Unit is carrying internally. Amphib TFs set to "Load troops only" (and maybe Transport as well) always take a minimal amount of additional supply to land behind any invasion the troops go on. Think of the supplies held by the unit as the ammo and rations and med kit that each man carries. Those supplies do not appear on base or TF holdings, only on the LCU screen.

[Yaab]

Here it comes, boys!

Made a short Head-to-Head test.

The Indp Company prior to embarking on an amphib TF.



Next turn, they are on a ship. The supply is there too.



We know that supply consumption goes up during land combat. Maybe the TF loads an equivalent of supplies worth three days of fighting for a given unit? If the TF's role is to land the LCU on an enemy island, the three day supplies the manual speaks of is the amount consumed in combat after landing, and not during the sea voyage. If you check the LCU screen while the LCU is on the ship it says the LCU's supplies are 0 (zero).

[BBfanboy]

Ah, you are correct - supply is removed from units on both Amphibious and Transport TFs. I am still pretty sure the AI loads a minimal amount of additional supply whenever troops are loaded.

[RangerJoe]

And I believe that the loaded units don't use supplies. So they must be eating any raw fish and seaweed that they can get on board ship and nothing else . . .

[jdsrae]

Interesting, I noticed last night that a Transport TF with unit in Strat move mode loaded 0 supplies. That’s what I use when sending LCU out of Japan.
I send them to the Area Fleet HQ location and change them to combat mode there, then they either walk or move via amphib TF to their destination.

You may have found a use for all those surplus xAK that start, eg: to keep supply use down a bit load up LCU in them like prison hulks and let the soldiers eat their belts!

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

Interesting, I noticed last night that a Transport TF with unit in Strat move mode loaded 0 supplies. That’s what I use when sending LCU out of Japan.
I send them to the Area Fleet HQ location and change them to combat mode there, then they either walk or move via amphib TF to their destination.

You may have found a use for all those surplus xAK that start, eg: to keep supply use down a bit load up LCU in them like prison hulks and let the soldiers eat their belts!

You save supply but I don't think the troops gain any experience and they suffer for morale and fatigue. They definitely do not gain any prep points while aboard ship.

[jdsrae]

Ok, the fun and frivolity of prison hulks aside, the example unit needs 12 supplies / month just to feed itself.
The amphibious TF has loaded 33 supplies, which is the equivalent of nearly 3 months worth of supplies if it was just food.

It would make sense that the amphib load is an estimate of 3 days worth of supplies required for combat ops, or hard fighting for 3 days after landing on a contested beach. This means the supply points represent a lot more than just food.

If that’s the case, the load of 33 points suggests that 1 day of combat, assuming Shock attack as the worst case, may consume up to 11 supply points or for this unit close to the equivalent of a month worth of food. I ran a small test on supply use in combat a few weeks ago but can’t remember if this aligns with the numbers I saw then or not. It may be a coincidence, but 11 points = the number of combat squads plus half the number of non combat squads.

I’m going to keep an eye on supply used during combat for the next battle I see on an island (so no supply flowing in) to see if supply used is roughly equivalent to the amphib TF “load troops only” supply load divided by 3. Plus I’ll make sure I have a follow up supply TF ready to unload within 3 days!

[RangerJoe]

In your amphibious TF, include at least one cargo vessel with only supplies so some supplies get unloaded for the troops. LSTs work great for this when you get them. They are also great for unloading armor units very fast.

[Yaab]

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

Ok, the fun and frivolity of prison hulks aside, the example unit needs 12 supplies / month just to feed itself.
The amphibious TF has loaded 33 supplies, which is the equivalent of nearly 3 months worth of supplies if it was just food.

It would make sense that the amphib load is an estimate of 3 days worth of supplies required for combat ops, or hard fighting for 3 days after landing on a contested beach. This means the supply points represent a lot more than just food.

If that’s the case, the load of 33 points suggests that 1 day of combat, assuming Shock attack as the worst case, may consume up to 11 supply points or for this unit close to the equivalent of a month worth of food. I ran a small test on supply use in combat a few weeks ago but can’t remember if this aligns with the numbers I saw then or not. It may be a coincidence, but 11 points = the number of combat squads plus half the number of non combat squads.

I’m going to keep an eye on supply used during combat for the next battle I see on an island (so no supply flowing in) to see if supply used is roughly equivalent to the amphib TF “load troops only” supply load divided by 3. Plus I’ll make sure I have a follow up supply TF ready to unload within 3 days!

The number of supplies loaded makes no sense. Had the TF loaded 36 supplies, you could argue the TF loads three times the LCU's required supplies (12 x 3 = 36). In combat, the supply consumption projection can spike to ten times the required supplies after a single day of figting (12 x 10 = 120). How the 36 supplies fit into this scheme? It is all convoluted.

[jdsrae]

The 12 supply is per month just to feed the unit.
The best rule of thumb I currently have is to trust the manual that the amphib TF loads an estimate for 3 days of fighting, which for this unit equals 33/3 = 11.
That feels a bit high to me for combat supply per day so it’s something I will try and test.

[jdsrae]

Here's an example of a slightly larger unit loaded on an amphib TF with "load troops only".
Each individual ship loaded exactly 3 x [number of devices] - 3 points of supply for the troops on board.
That's the same as the Aussie Ind Coy which loaded 3 x 12 - 3 = 33 points of supply on the ship.

Four from four ships isn't a large enough "n" to convince the statisticians on the forum, but it looks like a consistent pattern worth checking against a few more examples.

The most interesting bit for me, assuming that the manual is telling us the truth and that (3 x #ofdevices - 3) is an estimate for supply used by both of these units in three days of combat, that suggests to me that each of the devices in an Aussie Ind Coy and IJN Guard unit uses 1 supply point per day when in combat.

What I still don't know is whether that is 1 supply point per day or 1 supply point each time those devices fire, such as whether 1 supply point is used during defensive fire plus another 1 during offensive fire on the same day?
I also note that the devices are generally "small arms" in these two examples. There is no armour, artillery or AA guns in either of these two units. It wouldn't surprise me if larger calibre weapons and tanks consume more than 1 supply point each, something based on the load cost of those larger devices.
One thing is for sure, the next time I load an AA, Arty or Tank unit in amphib mode I'm going to do it in "load troops only" mode and write down the number of supplies loaded, then compare it against the number and size of devices on the ship.

[RangerJoe]

Try loading just a REMF unit with no other devices, then a pure armor unit and see if there are differences.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

Here's an example of a slightly larger unit loaded on an amphib TF with "load troops only".
Each individual ship loaded exactly 3 x [number of devices] - 3 points of supply for the troops on board.
That's the same as the Aussie Ind Coy which loaded 3 x 12 - 3 = 33 points of supply on the ship.

Four from four ships isn't a large enough "n" to convince the statisticians on the forum, but it looks like a consistent pattern worth checking against a few more examples.

The most interesting bit for me, assuming that the manual is telling us the truth and that (3 x #ofdevices - 3) is an estimate for supply used by both of these units in three days of combat, that suggests to me that each of the devices in an Aussie Ind Coy and IJN Guard unit uses 1 supply point per day when in combat.

What I still don't know is whether that is 1 supply point per day or 1 supply point each time those devices fire, such as whether 1 supply point is used during defensive fire plus another 1 during offensive fire on the same day?
I also note that the devices are generally "small arms" in these two examples. There is no armour, artillery or AA guns in either of these two units. It wouldn't surprise me if larger calibre weapons and tanks consume more than 1 supply point each, something based on the load cost of those larger devices.
One thing is for sure, the next time I load an AA, Arty or Tank unit in amphib mode I'm going to do it in "load troops only" mode and write down the number of supplies loaded, then compare it against the number and size of devices on the ship.

The "Supplies Needed" figure for the unit is based on actual usage over the past week. If the unit was not in combat during the past week, the amount of supplies it holds are just for non-combat usage. Combat drives up the usage enormously, with variable depending on how often and how persistently they fire.
Point is, I doubt you can calculate the supply usage in combat from the starting supply required for a unit that has not fought recently.

Alfred made a comment about this recently (about 2-3 months ago) but although I though I bookmarked it, I can't find it yet.