A New Campaign

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Wed Jun 06, 2001 8:58 pm

I've been doing a lot of reading of late on the fighting in the Hurtgen Forest of late.

I found it to be intensely interesting and tragically sad for both sides.

One thing I did not know was that the US 28th Infantry Division, a National Guard unit from Pennsylvania, was thrust into the Hurtgen, began fighting on November 2nd and by November 13th had to be pulled from the line with losses exceeding 30%

It had been literally "shot to pieces." I think that is a great title for a smaller campaign, focusing on the second battle for Schmidt, from November 3rd through November 8th.

What do you think?

Wild Bill

Tankhead · Post by **Tankhead** » Wed Jun 06, 2001 9:01 pm

Hi Wild Bill

It sounds great to me, I was reading about this a while ago, I for one would love to see it you have my support.

Tankhead

achappelle · Post by **achappelle** » Wed Jun 06, 2001 9:07 pm

Sounds great WB, with your penchant for surprises, I'm sure it'll be a challenge to play.

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Wed Jun 06, 2001 9:21 pm

Thanks, Gentlemen! I appreciate the encouragement. Campaigns require a lot of work and testing.

The Hurtgen is not one of those more glamorous periods of WW2 history but there was a lot of courage on both sides during some very bloody fighting!

Wild Bill

Mikimoto · Post by **Mikimoto** » Wed Jun 06, 2001 9:36 pm

Hello.
It is a great Campaign idea. The terrain is almost as interesting as the norman bocage. Have you seen the film "When trumpets fade", about the fighting in the Hurtgen forest? Bloody one.

Alexandra · Post by **Alexandra** » Wed Jun 06, 2001 9:43 pm

I think any campaign idea you have Bill is well worth it.

Should I be pouring the sand out of my tester hat in anticipation

?

Alex

pops · Post by **pops** » Wed Jun 06, 2001 10:01 pm

Sounds great! I'm especially happy to see something new from the Allied side...seems like everything new is from the German side lately (I like playing the Allies...keeps me emotionally involved..)

darroch · Post by **darroch** » Wed Jun 06, 2001 11:49 pm

WB,

I like the idea - especially in your hands...

BTW, you know the "shot-up" 28th went from the Hurtgen to a "quiet" zone in the Ardennes...

Talk about bad karma...

Your idea could be a mini-campaign in the HF then later a second mini could be added to reflect the Ardennes...

The whole thing would offer some sobering insights into the problems besetting a commander of a 1944 infantry formation...if the historical OOB was used, I would expect a lot of rank-n-file infantry formations rather than the sexy rangers, airborne, commandos, and tanks that we all love to buy...

Reality was that the rank-n-file dogface did most of the fighting and dying (see Citizen Soldiers by S. Ambrose)in plain old rifle squads with, if he was lucky, some MG and mortar support...

I think a lot of us would be interested in this treatment...(hint-hint: I'd buy the mega-campaign!)

And IF you're looking for new ideas for campaigns, here's some that I WISH I had the time to do...there's a lot of mileage to be made by basing the campaign around a battalion sized unit of famous Divisions (other than the ever popular marines, SS, and airborne Divs - they have tended to get overdone in my humble opinion). For example:

7th Brit Armored (Africa, Sicliy?, NW Europe)

11th GE Panzer (Ukraine '41, Stalingrad Rescue '42, Kursk-Sud '43, Anvil/Dragoon (Southern France '44)

2nd New Zealand Div (Greece, Crete, NA, Italy)

IT Ariete Armored Div

Hermann Goring Panzer Div?

4th US Armored (Patton and Wood)

GE Blue (Spanish) Infantry Division near Leningrad - seems to be a start on scenarios for this one...

I'm sure there are similar Canadian, Finnish, and other nationalities' divisions that could be used.

I don't know of any Russian formations but there are probably some good ones from '43 onwards...

Also, one could also model the evolution of the British Guards Armored Division - components of which fought in every major (and most of the minor) British actions - one's core force could be a battalion of the Guards when the Panzers roll through France in '40.....eventually the path would lead to Goodwood, Totalize, and Arnhem...

Maybe someone could follow certain lesser-known personalities:

Campaigns based on LeClerc (start in command of a ragtag force in the desert and end with 2nd French Armored - liberate Paris and Marseilles)?

Von Luck? Start with Rommel in France - end up with 21st Panzer - along the way fight just about every major combatant at the time...

Oh I wish I had the time!!!! SO many scenarios and so little time to build 'em and play 'em...

Such a nice problem to have though

Redleg · Post by **Redleg** » Wed Jun 06, 2001 11:55 pm

WB, I think you have a winner there. Bitterly fought and tough going - the stuff that fun scenarios are made of.

Good luck!

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Thu Jun 07, 2001 12:39 am

I appreciate the encouragement very much. A done deal. I've already done a great deal of research and will get on it. In fact the map is designed. The fighting of those 5 days will take place on the same map...that shows you just how bloody it was.

And fade into the Ardennes, part 2? Excellent idea, Darroch. I like your list

The 2nd NZ is a fine idea!

Hey Redleg, looks like you're going to have to put that "Blue" stuff of yours into a campaign.

By all means, pour out that sand and put away the sun-block, Alexandra. You won't need it where you are going

.

I'm with you, Pops, ready for something from the Allied side for a change.

I'll keep you posted and probably ask for some testing help. Thanks to all of you!

Wild Bill

achappelle · Post by **achappelle** » Thu Jun 07, 2001 12:49 am

A couple of famous units, how about the US Big Red One, or the Russian 138th Division who fought and died almost to a mna in Stalingrad.

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Thu Jun 07, 2001 12:57 am

Now see, you guys have got me more excited than a kid in a toy store! What do I chose next? They are all such good themes!

Wild Bill

fontenoy · Post by **fontenoy** » Thu Jun 07, 2001 1:12 am

Hello WB
Just a suggestion.How about a scenario of the Canadians at Ortona,Italy.It would be much like the current Stalingrad scenarios,in that it was fought house to house through the the city.Although nowhere near the same duration.Having played several of your scenarios,whichever you decide to create will be just fine with me.
Regards,
Fontenoy.

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Thu Jun 07, 2001 2:10 am

Good one Fontenoy! I'll look up some info and see what I can do...WB

Figmo · Post by **Figmo** » Thu Jun 07, 2001 2:42 am

Sounds Great Wild Man!! If it's anything like your other Hurtgen Forest stuff - it will be REAL tuff!! I can feel the mud and blood in my boots now!!

Figmo

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Thu Jun 07, 2001 3:12 am

I appreciate that, mighty Figmo. I'm on it!

WB

Warrior · Post by **Warrior** » Thu Jun 07, 2001 4:10 am

Do it!

gators · Post by **gators** » Thu Jun 07, 2001 4:46 am

Darroch another possibility for all the Ostfront fans is a campaign based on the Grossdeutchland regiment/divsion/corps. It was around for most of the major events in the East, and really was even more of the fireman than some of the more well known SS formations (LH, Das Reich, and Totenkopf). Non illegetimi carborundum :p :p :p :p

DCruiser · Post by **DCruiser** » Thu Jun 07, 2001 5:27 am

For info on Ortona, check Mark Zuehlke's book "Ortona", published in 1999. ISBN 0-7737-3198-9. Cost is 22.36 at Amazon.

Cheers,

DCruiser

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Thu Jun 07, 2001 7:19 am

I'm on it, DCruiser! Many thanks...WB