A plea for a zoom function on the operational map

[HannoMeier]

Dear Matrix/SSG,

I am a most loyal and fanatic Korsun Pocket fan (former TAO2 addict). I enjoy the game immensely, but even on my 19 inch screen, I experience the operational map as too small and therefore the units as too hard to read. I am convinced that some customers enjoy the overview over a large area, therefore I propose an option where the resolution of the operational map could be zoomed or changed.

A nice sideeffect of a zoom feature would be a feeling of a larger area of operations for both sides. As an example, I really loved the resolution of TAO2, where you got a feeling of a large battle fought over a large area.

Would this option be possible? What do other gamers think about this?

Best Regards, Hanno

[Belisarius]

Hmm....since the game resolution is fixed, I believe it would be harder to see details on my 17" than on a 19"? However, I have no problems with the size, everything is clearly visible and the scale is alright.

TAO2 made my eyes bleed, those HUGE in yo' face graphics. Ugh. Different strokes..

[Pawlock]

Dear Matrix/SSG,

I am a most loyal and fanatic Korsun Pocket fan (former TAO2 addict). I enjoy the game immensely, but even on my 19 inch screen, I experience the operational map as too small and therefore the units as too hard to read. I am convinced that some customers enjoy the overview over a large area, therefore I propose an option where the resolution of the operational map could be zoomed or changed.

A nice sideeffect of a zoom feature would be a feeling of a larger area of operations for both sides. As an example, I really loved the resolution of TAO2, where you got a feeling of a large battle fought over a large area.

Would this option be possible? What do other gamers think about this?

Best Regards, Hanno

I take it you mean the main map, not the top right hand corner one?

If so, then I heartilly agree, although pleasing on the eye, detail can be hard to make out which so far IMO is the games only negative point so far.

On a side note, when I get chance I'll have to buy an RGB lead for my laptop and try the game out on my 42" plasma screen, which can still display in VGA 1078 by 850ish res.
Unfortunatly, this can never be a permanent thing as the TV is still used for TV mainly and the wife would not be too happy me taking it over to play the PC;-)

[CBase]

I have not yet purchased Korsun Pocket but the lack of zoom levels for the tactical map was my biggest complaint with TAO. I always thought the tactical map showed too small a portion of the overall battle while the strategic map did not show enough detail - neither was just quite right for me. Using the tactical map in TAO was like trying to read a real map while looking through that cardboard tube that comes with a paper towel roll – as you are scanning the map it is difficult to get a feel for how far various units and terrain features are from one another. Perhaps the sequels will have a zoom feature.

[Adam Parker]

On both a 19 inch CRT - and a laptop giving 15 inch pure (eg a 17 inch CRT view) I cannot understand why a desire for a zoom exists.

Both screen sizes look fine to me - the most important unit inormation is contained on the right hand side unit bar area and the right click pop-up screens.

If people are finding it hard to manage the map due to its brightness or eyesight I recommend playing with hex overlay on. It both subtely darkens the map and provides an extra focal point.

I think that SSG recognized that TAO1 and 2 offered too small a viewable map area and has made a sound decision in the resolution provided with the game. I hope that answers your concern too CBase. The viewable map of TAO1 was a lot like Age of Rifles to me. Nice effort but too small. Not so KP/TAO3.

Adam.

[jmeyer7000both]

I second the motion for a zoom feature. Just ran TAO2 and reveled in the size of the units and the accessibility of the terrain information. (The units actually looked a bit too big, and, yes, I wanted a larger zoomed-out view sorta like KP's for TAO.) But, with KP it’s a chore for me to pick out all of the detail – forts, strongpoints, mines, remnants, roads, rivers, etc., often amidst a sea of tiny units. (Chores are not fun.) The current KP display is fine for Big Picture planning and movement, but for the sharp end, it’s not as user friendly or as engaging as a zoomed-in view. Yes, please, next to fixing some bugs to allow me to actually play KP, adding a zoomed-in view of say, anywhere form 10-15 hexes across would add an incredible dimension to the series. Again, it's not that I can't make do with the current KP display, it's just not as easy, fun, or engaging as having a smaller sized chunk of the map available to work-out a local tactical puzzle.

Cheers,
Jim M

[Adam Parker]

Help me understand the issue here guys as on many a forum there have been comments about the desire to zoom the map in for closer looks/graphics ease etc:

What size screens are you playing on? 15 inch CRT's with 13-14 inch viewable areas?? Then I could understand images looking tiny.

My point is, if this is the case for some, it's definitely time to invest in a gaming monitor. 17 inch CRT screens are as cheap as they come. 19 inch screens (17 LCD) should be a standard to work towards -if- gaming is your desire.

This may sound pompous of me to state - and it's not my intent - but the facts are simply these: You wouldn't play a board war game on a lamp table, why would you play a PC war game on a screen similar?

[Pawlock]

Help me understand the issue here guys as on many a forum there have been comments about the desire to zoom the map in for closer looks/graphics ease etc:

What size screens are you playing on? 15 inch CRT's with 13-14 inch viewable areas?? Then I could understand images looking tiny.

My point is, if this is the case for some, it's definitely time to invest in a gaming monitor. 17 inch CRT screens are as cheap as they come. 19 inch screens (17 LCD) should be a standard to work towards -if- gaming is your desire.

This may sound pompous of me to state - and it's not my intent - but the facts are simply these: You wouldn't play a board war game on a lamp table, why would you play a PC war game on a screen similar?

To put it in a nutshell, for me personnally, the units on the map look slighly blurred( best way I can describe it).
This by no means is a game stopper, I have seen far worse in my time.

My main PC I use 15" Sony LCD display, and my laptop is 14 LCD. My PC is calibrated by software I had provided with monitor. So, although calibration will help get the most from your monitors, I think in this case where many are having trouble seeing detail, it is perhaps would be a nice feature to consider.

[Adam Parker]

Pawlock what you mention is in fact a second string to the theme, as you're using an LCD. Here native resolution is of course the important thing - is yours 1024x768 - surely at 15 inches it would be? Marc I think has suggested calibration as you've done too.

The 14 inch laptop you're using though, I think goes to the first part of the theme - as a 14 inch LCD screen is only barely bigger than the viewable screen that a 15 inch CRT provides. On that, sure I can understand things being on the small side.

For others in the same boat using 14 inch laptops, you'll note a big difference using a 15 inch. Again, being akin to a 17 inch CRT I've no problems on mine.

14 inch laptops and 15 inch CRT's are just not imo the ideal gaming platforms for today. Why manufacturers are persisting with 14 inch laptops? I don't know but I'd be loathe to buy one and expect this business tool to be suitable for my recreational needs too. Now, the Sony 17 inch laptop - there's a beast.

[Pawlock]

Pawlock what you mention is in fact a second string to the theme, as you're using an LCD. Here native resolution is of course the important thing - is yours 1024x768 - surely at 15 inches it would be? Marc I think has suggested calibration as you've done too.

The 14 inch laptop you're using though, I think goes to the first part of the theme - as a 14 inch LCD screen is only barely bigger than the viewable screen that a 15 inch CRT provides. On that, sure I can understand things being on the small side.

For others in the same boat using 14 inch laptops, you'll note a big difference using a 15 inch. Again, being akin to a 17 inch CRT I've no problems on mine.

14 inch laptops and 15 inch CRT's are just not imo the ideal gaming platforms for today. Why manufacturers are persisting with 14 inch laptops? I don't know but I'd be loathe to buy one and expect this business tool to be suitable for my recreational needs too. Now, the Sony 17 inch laptop - there's a beast.

Ok, a slight update.

I've tried viewing the game on 3 different screens now, with albeit IMO very similar results.

15 " LCD 1078* 760ish

14" Laptop as above

42" Plasma as above

The best was the 15" Sony, but not enought(again IMO) to lay the blame solely on monitors.

Even on my 42" plasma , picture was great but detail hard to make out from REASONABLE distance away.


This perhaps, all sound like nitpicking to some who dont seem bothered by it, but it does appear there are a few out there who are bugged by it, and as thread stated it would be a nice addition for the future.

Its not a showstopper, just a minor niggle.

[soeren]

On both a 19 inch CRT - and a laptop giving 15 inch pure (eg a 17 inch CRT view) I cannot understand why a desire for a zoom exists.

Both screen sizes look fine to me - the most important unit inormation is contained on the right hand side unit bar area and the right click pop-up screens.

If people are finding it hard to manage the map due to its brightness or eyesight I recommend playing with hex overlay on. It both subtely darkens the map and provides an extra focal point.

I think that SSG recognized that TAO1 and 2 offered too small a viewable map area and has made a sound decision in the resolution provided with the game. I hope that answers your concern too CBase. The viewable map of TAO1 was a lot like Age of Rifles to me. Nice effort but too small. Not so KP/TAO3.

Adam.

I played it on an 21" Monitor, and believe me, a zoom would have helped my poor eyes a lot.

[Capitaine]

I use a 17" NEC flat screen monitor and the detail simply is too small for me to enjoy fully. I loved the look of TAO and thought the size of the counters there was perfect for the detail they contained. You could easily see the unit size, type, badge and "camo" pattern w/o a problem.

Would've enjoyed a "zoom out" feature in TAO to where KP is now, but that wasn't necessary. But I find a "zoom in" feature on KP very, very desirable to the point where the tininess of the unit counters and picking out the more detailed (than TAO) terrain features is problematic.

Might be a fixed resolution, but many such games have a zoom feature. Most likely if there was one, I would use it exclusively and only zoom out to the current view briefly to get an overview. TAO had the perfect size counters irrespective of "resolution".

[jmeyer7000both]

John, re your query:

I’ve got a nice Sony 19” CRT. There is nothing wrong with the images. They are fairly crisp, though tiny. The issue for me is that the current display just seems too remote and un-engaging for resolving local situations. It’s simply easier and more pleasing to see all of the details I need with a smaller area of the map filling the screen. I wouldn’t have to cycle through all of the hotkeys to see what’s really present. For me, it’s just accessibility and ease of use equaling less work and more fun. (Okay, I want it all. I like to play around with/look at maps of different scales not only in games, but in history tomes as well.)

Of course I don’t play a board game on a lamp table, but then again, I can stick my nose into the map to help my aging eyes bring the details into focus.

Let’s say you’re a divisional commander and you’ve been ordered to cross the river, breach the minefields, overrun the pickets, seize the heights, take the city by storm and break-out along the paved road running NNW through the forest until you reach the next phase line, and by the way, don’t’ worry about a low-scale map, we already got this nice theatre display for you to use, thank you.

As Humphrey Bogart said to Edward G. Robinson in Key Largo, “I know what you really want. It’s more, isn’t it?” And Edward G. responds, “Yeh, more. That’s it. I want more!” Me, too - I want more, if at all possible, simply for a more satisfying gaming experience.

Cheers,
Jim M

[Jeff Lackey]

On both a 19 inch CRT - and a laptop giving 15 inch pure (eg a 17 inch CRT view) I cannot understand why a desire for a zoom exists.

Both screen sizes look fine to me - the most important unit inormation is contained on the right hand side unit bar area and the right click pop-up screens.

If people are finding it hard to manage the map due to its brightness or eyesight I recommend playing with hex overlay on. It both subtely darkens the map and provides an extra focal point.

Adam.

I've played it on a 19" Trinitron and a 15" Dell Notebook screen. On the notebook screen in particular I found myself wishing I could do a zoom. It wasn't that it was completely required, just that it would have been nice and would have made things a little easier (e.g., I've sometimes mistaken a tiny grey dot in the upper left corner for an orange dot, or vice versa.)

Options are always nice to have. Obviously there are people for whom a Zoom function would be a welcome addition, and others who feel they would never use it. Obviously options also add to the development time/costs, so that's a decision the team has to make. For my two cents' worth, I'd like them to consider it for future installments of the system (and would LOVE to have it in a patch, but I imagine that's too much for a patch.)

[Malor]

As my first post ever to a Matrix forum after years of lurking.

I am playing KP on a 19" monitor. I find that my interest in the game is already failing after a few weeks because I cannot play longer than one hour. Eye strain from trying to see all the details in the hex that are required to make the right decisions contributes greatly to my time limit. (Please note that I do not suffer eye strain while playing other games like UV). Yes, I know I can click on a hex to see more detail, but I'm not playing a point and click shooter game, I'm playing a tactical war-game. A zoom in feature is a must for a game like KP so all of the details can be seen at once without the need to click multiple times or toggle the hot keys on/off.

I have a strong interest in KP and was looking forward to additional games in the series. Especially since I have been a strong supporter of SSG since I first found the Battlefront series for the C64 (followed by CAW, RFTS and the Warlords series). However without a zoom-in feature, I don't see myself playing KP much longer or purchasing other games in the series.

Thanks,

Tim B.

[Adam Parker]

John, re your query:

...but then again, I can stick my nose into the map to help my aging eyes bring the details into focus.

I forgot to mention, yes I put my nose on the screen too

Thanks guys for posting on this. The issue for zooming then isn't so much the lack of overall graphics quality but one of working out what comprises a crowd of hexes containing stacks of units - ie: the busyness of the hexes themselves.

Yes, I can see this pov. I learned after about 5 plays of the campaign start, that the only way to determine where bridges and major rivers existed, once units began to accommodate their hexes, was to right click the hexes in question. This is so important particularly in the lower eastern flank.

Note Panzer Campaigns offers the same feature - right clicking to see hex-side details. However the art used in KP is so much more graded in 3d look (with isthmuses and nooks and crannies populating the river systems) that the necessity to check by right clicking is so much more frequent in KP.

[Capitaine]

With all due respect Adam, I really think it has to do with the actual, physcial size of the hexes and counters. The graphic quality is fine, very high in fact. It isn't a graphic "quality" problem, you are right. But the issue did NOT exist w/ the same kind of "3D shaded" map in TAO, and you could see the bridges, units, roads... everything, without having to make excessive use of a "right-click" hex terrain key.

I think we just want the map and the units to be able to be zoomed up to at least the size of TAO if we so elect. Some might not care, but enough DO care that it makes an option for this kind of view important because it does get tiresome when you cannot really tell much about your units by glancing at the screen other than that units are present at that location.

[Rob Gjessing]

I think SSG are working on the Zoom function guys. In the immediate - dont forget that if you are finding it hard to see bridges etc.. you can toggle the units on and off the map.

[Capitaine]

Thanks Rob, I hope that is indeed true. Game is too good to get poor marks on an issue like this!

[AngryCoder]

I know about turning the unit markers on and off, but is there a way to turn the display of strongpoints off? I haven't found one yet.