That may be, but I remember when your opponent had taken the region while playing Ted, he indicated having some problems getting supply out that way. When I got in there just before mid-May in my game I tried turning up the supply 'spinners', and wallah drew tons of supply. Try it see if it works.
Good thought, but both the supply spinners at Mandalay and Lashio are cranked up to even get them to draw any supply. Without that, they already have more than plenty.
OK, but I went even further. I cranked the whole line on/off to get it as far inland as I could. Pushed as much as possible into Rangoon. Then, Prome, Magwe, Mandalay.... 'Til I had over 30K at each. As Japan I felt that would hold me until the monsoon ran out. Just sayin'.
For you obviously the end result is to get it into China. From what I've read in these pages over the years it seems the only way to keep supply in China early on. Even then you'll have to be stingy. I imagine you're already aware of this though.
I looked up the official word on Monsoon Effect which was introduced in one of the earlier beta patches.
Monsoon season lasts from May 15 - Oct 15 and causes a 50% reduction on the daily supply draw cap of affected bases. Only bases with the daily supply draw cap in India, Burma, and Thailand are affected, and not all of them are. Posts 13 and 14 from Skyros in this thread have a chart that shows the affected bases in Scenario 1. tm.asp?m=3793632
As the Allies I have defended the mountain base 2 hexes SE of Batavia for some time normally it lasts between late May to mid July, 42. He has to surround it and risk you deciding to breakout in one direction or another if he doesn't leave enough back to contain it. I stock all mobile units and supply max there so it can hold out for 2-3 months after being invested. Being in the mountains I believe the affects of bombing are less and you usually are left alone longer there as he works on taking the major city/ports so your building of forts usually go higher there as well. It has worked well for me in several Allied side games.
I'll keep that idea in mind for my next game, Bif. The question I still wonder is what is the driving need for the enemy to have to attack you there? Other than a little bit of LI and Resources, there is not the same motivation as capturing Batavia and Soerabaja. I understand the threat of a breakout, but it only requires a small to moderate force to occupy the surrounding hexes and wait it out, unless you give up the only advantage you have of defending in the mountain hex by attacking. Show me some advantage I could gain by holding out in that hex for another month or two and I would be sold. But otherwise, it seems like a good place to cut off, bypass, and let your forces wither on the vine similar to the Allied Island Hopping strategy later in the war.
The best way to find that out would be to see how many troops it would take to surround the Mountain bastion to ensure that 1,000+ AV doesn't breakout and threaten to take Batavia and then have access to it's supplies. So the question is how much would have to be left behind to defend against a breakout? The Dutch have nothing to lose by leaving them in the mountains and everything to gain if the Japanese doesn't leave enough behind to defend against a breakout. For the Japanese it is a balance of time as the clock is against him and with the amphib bonus running out 1 April it forces him to make a decision, unlike if he takes the Dutch quicker in Batavia or
Soerabaja. It is a matter of in which way can the Dutch have the most influence the longest on the Japanese.
Just seems to me that Surabaya tends to fall so quickly that its not worth trying. At any rate your point is valid and makes sense. Was just wondering if there was any other viable option. BTW that location is where the Dutch meant to make their last stand IIRC. In the end the whole op fell apart for them and it never materialized. Java went in a week, will never happen in the game.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Mike I appreciate the time it took to answer my questions. Very much appreciated. Your posts are like reading a cliff-hanging novel in can't wait to read the next page of your adventure! And Force Z has done you proud so hope it keeps on giving!
Just seems to me that Surabaya tends to fall so quickly that its not worth trying. At any rate your point is valid and makes sense. Was just wondering if there was any other viable option. BTW that location is where the Dutch meant to make their last stand IIRC. In the end the whole op fell apart for them and it never materialized. Java went in a week, will never happen in the game.
I think you guys have convinced me to try defending Bandoeng in a future game. It will be an interesting experiment either way, similar to my trying out a defense in Manila this game.
Mike I appreciate the time it took to answer my questions. Very much appreciated. Your posts are like reading a cliff-hanging novel in can't wait to read the next page of your adventure! And Force Z has done you proud so hope it keeps on giving!
You're quite welcome for the answers, and thank you for the comments! Any time I actually know the answer to something I try to take the opportunity. It doesn't happen often. [:D]
As for Force Z, the only thing that they will be giving for a while is some work for the shipyard crew at Colombo. [:D]
Still wrapping up orders for the next turn and then will post an update, but let's say I picked the right time to pull my one BB and my CA led forces out of the DEI. [;)]
The best way to find that out would be to see how many troops it would take to surround the Mountain bastion to ensure that 1,000+ AV doesn't breakout and threaten to take Batavia and then have access to it's supplies. So the question is how much would have to be left behind to defend against a breakout? The Dutch have nothing to lose by leaving them in the mountains and everything to gain if the Japanese doesn't leave enough behind to defend against a breakout. For the Japanese it is a balance of time as the clock is against him and with the amphib bonus running out 1 April it forces him to make a decision, unlike if he takes the Dutch quicker in Batavia or
Soerabaja. It is a matter of in which way can the Dutch have the most influence the longest on the Japanese.
Two Divisions of IJA infantry oughta do it.
1. Split them into component A/B/C subunits at all available hex sides (x6).
2. Have them simultaneously march into the Bandoeng hex. You can 'combat' move them if you're particularly concerned about the risk of a well-timed counterattack.
3. After they make the move, they'll 'flip' hex side control.
4. Reform parent divisions in Bandoeng. Set to 'combat'.
5. Organic engineer units will start building fortifications. It really doesn't take long to get to Fortification level 1. Forts 2 takes a little longer.
6. Wait.
Now the Allies holed up in Bandoeng have an unsolvable conundrum. Do they wait and allow the Japanese to continue to dig in? How long to wait? What will supplies look like after 1 month? Are there air attacks to further reduce supply availability?
If they attack, can they generate sufficient AV to offset approximately 700 Japanese AV in mountainous terrain? Probably not. Will attacking further erode their combat abilities? 1:2 attacks for the Allies-particularly in the early going by invested forces-are disastrous.
As Japanese, with full hexside control, I can rotate units into and out of the siege unit as I see fit. As Batavia and Soerbaja have been effectively abandoned, this siege zone becomes a secondary backwater. I can drag this on for 6 months if it means that Soerbaja and Batavia were mine for a song (and fully repaired!) earlier.
The best way to find that out would be to see how many troops it would take to surround the Mountain bastion to ensure that 1,000+ AV doesn't breakout and threaten to take Batavia and then have access to it's supplies. So the question is how much would have to be left behind to defend against a breakout? The Dutch have nothing to lose by leaving them in the mountains and everything to gain if the Japanese doesn't leave enough behind to defend against a breakout. For the Japanese it is a balance of time as the clock is against him and with the amphib bonus running out 1 April it forces him to make a decision, unlike if he takes the Dutch quicker in Batavia or
Soerabaja. It is a matter of in which way can the Dutch have the most influence the longest on the Japanese.
Two Divisions of IJA infantry oughta do it.
1. Split them into component A/B/C subunits at all available hex sides (x6).
2. Have them simultaneously march into the Bandoeng hex. You can 'combat' move them if you're particularly concerned about the risk of a well-timed counterattack.
3. After they make the move, they'll 'flip' hex side control.
4. Reform parent divisions in Bandoeng. Set to 'combat'.
5. Organic engineer units will start building fortifications. It really doesn't take long to get to Fortification level 1. Forts 2 takes a little longer.
6. Wait.
Now the Allies holed up in Bandoeng have an unsolvable conundrum. Do they wait and allow the Japanese to continue to dig in? How long to wait? What will supplies look like after 1 month? Are there air attacks to further reduce supply availability?
If they attack, can they generate sufficient AV to offset approximately 700 Japanese AV in mountainous terrain? Probably not. Will attacking further erode their combat abilities? 1:2 attacks for the Allies-particularly in the early going by invested forces-are disastrous.
As Japanese, with full hexside control, I can rotate units into and out of the siege unit as I see fit. As Batavia and Soerbaja have been effectively abandoned, this siege zone becomes a secondary backwater. I can drag this on for 6 months if it means that Soerbaja and Batavia were mine for a song (and fully repaired!) earlier.
Thanks for the Dark Side perspective, CB. More food for thought, but my initial reaction was more in line with your thinking.
China
Hong Kong held out for 2 weeks, but the defenders finally gave up the ghost this turn. For the last 2 or 3 turns, any bad die roll on my part meant the end, but at least I got to tie up some Japanese ground forces for a few extra days. I don't think any significant damage was done to the industry here.
The first of the Chinese LCU's that I can buy out has crossed into Burma and is heading for the nearest railroad station to ride part of the way to India. It will be several more turns before the next one makes it to the border. All but two small fighter groups and a handful of straggler planes have also hopped their way to Ledo and then on to Delhi. That will be my central Chinese air training base.
Other LCU's are slowly making their way back to a consolidated MLR. I've managed to slip a few more units out of the south and southeast where Mike could have cut them off if he tried harder. I've also designated a few units as "irritants" to get in Mike's way a bit, force him to stop and attack in places, sitting on his rail lines behind units, etc. He's said I'm really irritating in China, so I guess it's working a bit. [:D]
Central Pac
There are more signs that the massive sub blockade of Pearl is ending. Several more subs are making their way to the west. Many are probably Winchester from shooting at my DD's. The sunk ships list is showing 3 Jap subs sunk here for 3 of my DD's. Considering most of my DD's have very limited ASW until their first upgrades, I'll take that trade. It's a long war.
At the first signs of the Pearl blockade ending, a troop convoy left San Fran, bound for Pearl. It's carrying the two Inf Rgts to later reform the 24th and 25th Divisions at Pearl. The transports will then pick up some engineer and other units from Pearl that are bound for the South Pacific and Oz. By the time they unload and reload at Pearl a big followup convoy will have left SF for SOPAC and Oz. They will meet and have at least 1 if not all 3 CV's as escort for the trip.
South Pac
Mike's activity here has been limited so far. Several turns ago, I split the "Pensacola" convoy that starts at sea carrying lots of artillery. A couple of base forces started unloading at Suva while the Pensacola escorted several more toward Brisbane. Well, the infamous IJN AMC's that start in the area found and hit my unescorted, unloading transports at Suva. I split off Pensacola and gave chase for 4 days, but didn't manage to catch them. Very lucky timing on Mike's part, I believe, however some recon by Glens may also have tipped him off that those unloading ships were unescorted.
His forces have snatched Shortlands and Gasmata so far, as well as Kaiveng. No movement in force in this area yet.
DEI
As previously mentioned, I chose the right time to bug out with Force Z and my US/Dutch CA led forces. No less than 3 different BB TF's have made their way into the region to flex their muscles. 4 BB's bombarded Ambon Island and caught a couple of small transports there, empty fortunately. Two other BB's led a bombardment of Ternate. At least 1 BB but probably more is leading a SC TF patroling between Kuching and Palembang. There is at least one mini-KB backing up the surface TF's in the Sorong area. Almost all of my shipping has vacated the area.
Mike captured Miri this turn as well. Mouseover intel indicates 171 of 300 damage for both oil fields and refinery there. They both start at 150 "damaged" to simulate construction in progress, so about 21 points of damage were incurred to each. I'll take it.
Singapore
No signs of movement of LCU's into Singapore yet. The Japanese bombardment of the base picked up a bit this turn and my engineers were not able to repair all of the AF service damage. It's around 30%. This is a pretty clear indicator that my forts won't be increasing much from their current 3.04 level. I frankly didn't expect to make lvl 4, but I can hope. This is also a sign that my air operations from the AF at Singapore are near an end. I've left my remaining groups there for one more 2 day turn but will likely look to evacuate them after that. There are only a handful of fighters left there, as I decided not to draw any replacements here. Frankly, another 10-20 air frames here would just have been more swept from the skies in the same amount of time. The only reason I have a few still here is some didn't fly earlier. There are about 2 full squadrons of level bombers that have scored a couple of hits attacking ships at 1000 feet, and still about a dozen torpedo bombers. These guys had another successful day last turn as they hit and sank a couple of loaded troop transports off Mersing. Swim call! [:D]
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Mersing at 51,81
Weather in hex: Severe storms
Raid spotted at 1 NM, estimated altitude 4,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 0 minutes
Aircraft Attacking:
6 x Hudson I bombing from 1000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 lb SAP Bomb
6 x Blenheim IV bombing from 1000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 lb SAP Bomb
Burma
The first Japanese LCU has been spotted one hex from Moulmein. I gave orders for 1 Bn sized units to move into the jungle just across the river from the rail line connecting Rangoon with Mandalay. The goal here is to keep this rail line and the Burma Road open as long as possible so I want to delay Mike's ground forces forward of the line.
About 48k more supply is shipping into Rangoon, with 39k arriving next turn to start unloading. I'm hoping the bulk of this supply will get sucked into China before the line is cut.
This is the whole point. Tying down two IJA divisions is a pretty big deal for the Dutch. Take those two divisions to Surabaya, the place falls after one or two attacks and move on to the next objective, while Java is garrisoned by a number of 'backwater' units.
Japan doesn't have a plethora of divisions running around the map, especially in the time frame of which we speak.
These units would be better used, say in western OZ. If nothing else in a spoiling attack in the region.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Well, your air attacks sure must be annoying as well, though these will soon end.
Keep as much supply as possible going to Rangoon, it will be of great use if you can get it to China.
If the current two supply convoys make their deposits successfully another will be loaded up and immediately depart Colombo.
So far things look as good as may be expected for the Allies at this stage.
Thanks. I'm pretty happy with the events of the first two weeks. The only move I wish I had made differently was leaving too many of those ground forces at Johore Bahru in Move mode, hoping to get out of the hex before they were attacked. Mike commented that he thinks it's the only mistake I've made so far. I don't know about that, but maybe for those that were noticeable to him. [:D] It was a minor mistake in the grand scheme of things, likely only shortening the fall of Singapore by a week or less, but one I won't make again.
CB, I would say breaking down those 2 divisions to their sub rgts and each one moves in combat mode to the mountain redoubt is already a victory for the Dutch. However, as stated by rustysi, that operation would take much longer than those two division defeating a defense of either Batavia or Soerabaja. Also leaving the rgts alone makes them vulnerable to attack by the dutch in the mountains who can have 1,000+ AV there and they could attack one rgt with 700 AV leaving the rest in 3-5 level forts on the mountain. Defeating a 150 AV Japanese Rgt not with forts and possibly in a clear hes nearest Batavia would make Batavia open to being taken. That would cause the Japanese to have even more LCUs on hand to stop the breakout towards Batavia in reserve or stop the movement towards the mountain with the other 5 Rgts to rush back to Batavia with some or all 5 remaining Rgts. Your scenario assumes the Dutch will not attack any of the isolated Rgts as they move towards the mountain hex with a large portion of their garrison.I have done this before and the Japanese were delayed even further, when I defeated one of his units moving up to attack the mountain.Then I was able to either move against something else or hustle back up to the mountain on a improved road using movement instead of combat mode. The Japanese have to use more than just two divisions to take the mountain redoubt than just the two divisions you suggest and it would take 2-3 months,as I stuff the place with all the supplies on Java and all the airplanes and flak. The Dutch also have a few small armor units they could let run amok once they breakout as the bulk of the LCUs go back up the mountain. I have done this in several games and the mountain redoubt holds out into june or july against a Japanese opponent who uses 200-300 bombers and 3-4 divisions. The best the Dutch can hope for is to tie up as many Japanese assets for as long as possible and I have done it in several games with this mountain redoubt gambit.
