A Clash of Titans, Xhoel (Axis) vs Bitburger (Soviet)

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Panzerwaffe Report.

Post by xhoel »

Panzerwaffe report

The following is a report on the state of the German Panzerwaffe, including TOEs of the field Panzer and Motorized divisions, Morale and Experience of said divisions AFV production, AFV inventory and number of AFVs in the pool. This report only refers to German forces, armored and motorized formations of our Axis Allies are NOT included.

At the start of summer 1942 Germany fields 21 Panzer Divisions and 1 independent Panzer Regiment. The Panzer Divisions have 2 TOEs, the more standard 42a Panzer TOE (used by 15 divisions) and the 42c Panzer TOE (used by 6 divisions). Both TOEs have the same number of elements and almost identical number of AFVs, the difference between them is in the tanks used.
The 42a Panzer TOE has in its core medium tanks, 117 of them and is augmented by 21 light tanks while the 42c Panzer TOE has in its core 86 light tanks, is augmented by 42 medium tanks and is on paper less formidable than its sister TOE.

Both TOE have a reinforced SP Flak component (34 SP Flak) as well as the same number of support AFVs (16 CS tanks , 6 Tank Destroyers, 18 AC and 14 Half Tracks). Both TOEs will receive an update at the start of September. The full breakdown of TOEs at full strength is shown below:

Panzer TOEs:

Image

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The quality of the Panzerwaffe:

At the start of the summer campaign, 14 of the Panzer Divisions have a morale of 86 or more, making them perfect for pincer operations and converting enemy territory as they only pay 2 MPs to enter an enemy hex as opposed to 3 for Divisions <86.
The experience of these divisions is high, as many of them have been refitted and underwent training during the past months. All of these formations are under the command of highly experienced and skilled commanders and have very high CV.

Morale and Exp of said formations:

Image

Selected units have a morale <86

The Motorized Divisions are supporting the Panzer Divisions in all their operations and are a vital component of the Panzerwaffe. At the start of the summer of 1942 Germany fields 13 Motorized Divisions (12 once the L.A.H SS Mot. Division withdraws), 1 Elite Motorized Regiment (which will update to division soon) and 2 Motorized Brigades. The standard motorized divisions of the Heer (10 standard motorized divisions) have 3 TOEs (de facto 2). The 42 Motorized Division TOE and the 42a Motorized Division TOEs are the same, the only difference being that the units that are using the 42a TOE (2 divisions, the 36th and 14th Motorized Divisions) will lose their motorized status at the start of June 1943 and will revert to normal infantry divisions.

The rest of the 8 remaining Motorized divisions have an even split, 4 of them utilize the 42 Mot. TOE and 4 of them utilize the tank heavy 42b Mot. TOE. The TOEs are identical save for 1 small detail: the 42b TOE utilizes 55 tanks as an organic part of the division, meaning that it has twice the AFVs that its sister TOE has. Comparison side by side:

42a Motorized Division TOE:

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42 and 42b Motorized Division TOEs:

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The Morale and Experience of the Motorized units is also quite high: only 2 Motorized Brigades and 2 Motorized Infantry Divisions have a morale <86 as shown below:

Image

Max TOEs:

The Max TOEs of all Panzer divisions that have a morale >85 have been set to 100%. They are to be kept at full strength for as long as possible so that they retain their full combat strength. The Max TOE of Panzer Divisions <86 Morale has been capped at smaller values (85-95%). The independent Panzer Regiment has been capped at 50%. This is a choice that the Germans are forced to do because of the scarcity of tanks that the German industry produces.

Motorized formations have been set to 100% Max TOE.
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RE: Panzerwaffe Report.

Post by xhoel »

German AFV industry:

The tanks that Germany has on the field are a mixture of different models. The most used ones per category are the Pz IIIJ with the short 50 mm gun (Medium Tank), the light Pz38(t)E (light tank), the PzIVF (CS Tank) and the StuGIII F (assault gun).

No light tanks are currently in production and the Germans are using the better armored version of the Pz38(t), the Pz 38(t)E from the stocks (currently at 253). Inventory of light tanks currently in use as well as the inventory of the pools:

Pz38(t) compared to the better armored Pz38(t)E:

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The red writing on the gun is not easy to decipher so I have just used arrows to show where it can be read easily.

Light tanks deployed in the field:

Image

Notice the use of captured T-26.

German pools of Light tanks:

Image

German AFV industry has become more streamlined and produces 2 main medium tanks:

The most produced one is the Pz IIIm which is the better armored version of the Pz IIIL featuring the long 50mm KwK39 L/60 gun which is able to penetrate the frontal armor of the T-34 at ranges under 500 meters. Equipped with an APCR shell, it is able to penetrate the heavy armored KV-1 tank. 31 Panzer IIIm are produced and delievered to the East a week.

The other tank is the Panzer IVG, using the high velocity 75mm KwK40 L/43 gun which is able to penetrate the T-34 at ranges from 1.000 to 1.600 meters and can also penetrate the KV-1 tank. 16 Panzer IVGs are produced and delivered to the East a week.

Both tanks are formidable, have good armour and with a reliability of 25 not so prone to constant breakdowns.
Since the pools for medium tanks are very low we are only showing the inventory for said tank category:

Comparison between the Panzer IIIM and the Panzer IVG:

Image

Inventory of Medium tanks in the field:

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Other AFVs

The Panzer IIIn (the last of the Panzer III line) equipped with the short barreled 75 mm KwK L/24 gun, suitable to destroy fortifications and to provide support to the infantry and panzergrenadiers is also in production. At maximum capacity, 8 of these tanks are produced a week but currently only 4 are produced and delivered as the production is in its initial phase.

The main CS tanks of the Wehrmacht:

Image

The German indsutry also produces 2 types of Light Tank Destroyers:

The first one is the Marder II (Sd. Kfz. 131), build on the Panzer IIF chassis, using the powerful 75mm Pak40 gun.

The second one is the Panzerjager 38, build on the Panzer 38(t) chassis, using captured Soviet 76mm guns which have been rechambered to fire the more powerful German Pak40 cartridge.

Both of these light tank destroyers suffer from poor protection (open top and rear) as well as very thin armor. They do however posses excellent firepower and should be employed in a tank hunting capacity.

The 2 Light Tank Destroyers being compared:

Image

For reference:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marder_II
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marder_III
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62_cm_Pak_36(r)

The StuG IIIF/8, the upgunned and better armored version of the StuG IIIF has just entered production. The Assault Gun sports the powerful lengthened 75mm KwK40 L/48 gun, which is effective in engaging all Soviet AVFs and makes this version of the StuG III more of a tank destroyer than an assault gun.

StuG IIIF vs StuG IIIF/8:

Image

Inventory and pools for CS tanks, Light Tank Destroyers and Assault Guns:

Image

NOTE: All of these screenshots were taken at the end of turn 55 therefore there is a high number of damaged AFVs and the ready TOEs are lower than at the start of the week.

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RE: Panzerwaffe Report.

Post by Telemecus »

ORIGINAL: xhoel
Both tanks are formidable, have good armour and with a reliability of 25 not so prone to constant breakdowns.
Worth reminding all that reliability in WitE is actually a measure of "unreliability" - the higher the numbers the less reliable they are
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RE: Panzerwaffe Report.

Post by Bear1888 »

PZKW IV was such a well-balanced design. A tank, designed in the late 30s and still absolutely deadly in 1945 in the "Ausführung" J.
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RE: Panzerwaffe Report.

Post by Telemecus »

ORIGINAL: Bear1888
PZKW IV was such a well-balanced design. A tank, designed in the late 30s and still absolutely deadly in 1945 in the "Ausführung" J.
It was still deadly in 1967!
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RE: Panzerwaffe Report.

Post by Bear1888 »

ORIGINAL: Telemecus
ORIGINAL: Bear1888
PZKW IV was such a well-balanced design. A tank, designed in the late 30s and still absolutely deadly in 1945 in the "Ausführung" J.
It was still deadly in 1967!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbgW9C9G0H4

Ah thanks. In 1967, they faced Israeli super Sherman tanks. Just like their ancestors fought it out in 1943-1945 over 20 years ago.
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RE: Panzerwaffe Report.

Post by xhoel »

For reference in regards to reliability: The T-34 1941 (main Soviet medium tank at the start of the summer 1942) has a reliability of 20 while the Panther D has a reliability of 40. So at 25 I am quite pleased with the reliability of the AFV.
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RE: Panzerwaffe Report.

Post by xhoel »

ORIGINAL: Bear1888

PZKW IV was such a well-balanced design. A tank, designed in the late 30s and still absolutely deadly in 1945 in the "Ausführung" J.

Indeed. It was a deadly weapon and exactly what the Germans needed in the East.
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RE: Panzerwaffe Report.

Post by EwaldvonKleist »

The Max TOE of Panzer Divisions <86 Morale has been capped at smaller values (85-95%).
I think that is a questionable decision. Essentially, it keeps manpower/artillery out of high morale armoured divisions and sends it to low morale infantry. It is better to use refit to channel AFVs IMO.

I think you have pretty much broken the back of the Soviets, their army seems very weak.

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RE: Panzerwaffe Report.

Post by 56ajax »

ORIGINAL: xhoel

For reference in regards to reliability: The T-34 1941 (main Soviet medium tank at the start of the summer 1942) has a reliability of 20 while the Panther D has a reliability of 40. So at 25 I am quite pleased with the reliability of the AFV.
Over time the reliability (and quality) of the T34 deteriorated alarmingly. This was due to the need for industry to relocate and increase production. Not sure if the game handles this.
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RE: Panzerwaffe Report.

Post by Telemecus »

ORIGINAL: 56ajax
This was due to the need for industry to relocate and increase production.

Not only that - Soviet Production engineers over time deliberately reduced the tolerances of the manufactured parts. Once they had worked out that Soviet tanks only lasted months, and hours on average on the battelefield they decided there was no point in high quality engineering to make them last longer. From a strict war optimisation view they were quite right to do this and explains why the Soviet Union was able to outproduce tanks. This was not always appreciated by the tankies though! This is in contrast to German design led engineering which always wanted the best.
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RE: Panzerwaffe Report.

Post by xhoel »

@EvK: The manpower/artillery would just sit in the pool really. Everything has been capped to optimize the Army but I understand what you mean. I don't want the panzer divisions to have shortages of men and arty so I will see if there are better ways to go about than to just cap the TOE.

I'm not convinced that I have broken their back yet. Bitburger still hasn't committed his mobile reserve and he is holding a portion of his guard units back. I don't want to repeat the mistakes the Germans did and underestimate my opponent!

@56ajax and Tele: Funny that you are mentioning that. The T-34 M1942 that starts production in July 1942 has a better reliability (15) than the M1941 version (20).
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RE: Panzerwaffe Report.

Post by Bear1888 »

Never underestimate the soviets. I play against my respected opponent frogmarc. We are in January 43 now. After taking Moscow, Leningrad and inflicting 7.3 millions casualties to the red army, I thought :"that's it. now i just need to dig behind the Don river, drink beer and eat schnitzel and play the game out until he gives up."

We are far from that. With a relatively small Red Army of 6.2 mio. men, he started a Blizzard offensive and is actually driving me back hex for hex.
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RE: Panzerwaffe Report.

Post by joelmar »

@Bear1888 - that is interesting. I would be curious to see his OOB. Maybe a small Red Army with high ratio of high quality units is not much less potent than a much bigger one that has it's quality diluted in a second rate units.
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RE: Panzerwaffe Report.

Post by Bear1888 »

I will post something after the next turn.
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RE: Panzerwaffe Report.

Post by xhoel »

Indeed. I believe that its not the numbers that determine if the Soviets are successful. A small army of high quality and that is organized properly can get the job done better than a huge army with rag tag formations. I'd also like to see the OOB :)
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RE: Panzerwaffe Report.

Post by joelmar »

maybe a smaller Soviet army is more exposed to counter-attacks in the summer though?

And of course it forces the Soviet player to rely more on finesse.
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RE: Panzerwaffe Report.

Post by Telemecus »

ORIGINAL: joelmar

maybe a smaller Soviet army is more exposed to counter-attacks in the summer though?

And of course it forces the Soviet player to rely more on finesse.

The Crackaces analysis was that 6.1 million was just the threshold to start tipping the balance. Above that and the Soviet side can think advance - or at least take the blows in summer, below that and they will have problems.
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RE: Panzerwaffe Report.

Post by Crackaces »

ORIGINAL: Telemecus
ORIGINAL: joelmar

maybe a smaller Soviet army is more exposed to counter-attacks in the summer though?

And of course it forces the Soviet player to rely more on finesse.

The Crackaces analysis was that 6.1 million was just the threshold to start tipping the balance. Above that and the Soviet side can think advance - or at least take the blows in summer, below that and they will have problems.

6.1 might seem odd ... so why not 6.0 or 6.2M? .. I have made this analyses in multiple AAR's but in short .. the typical number of hexes the Soviets have to cover * 5K to 7K minimum for a ready unit * 3 to 4 deep in a great many places. It is very clear the 6.0M and under (see the 8MP AAR) is not enough and the Germans can find a spot to not only exploit but destroy the Soviet Union in 1942.

Attacking in the first winter is expensive that has been pointed out . but if your opponet is on the ropes from an OOB standpoint this might be the one condition that a directed blizzard offense toward hurting cav units might be worth the trucks and AFV's ...But if the Soviet's are over 6.1M it is one data input that tougher times are ahead .. 7M and the German is going to be on their heels ...
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RE: Panzerwaffe Report.

Post by joelmar »

@Telemecus: yes, that was part of the basis of my precedent comment.

I think the Soviet side always has an advantage in blizzard, even after the first winter. But blizzard operations are still limited, and really summer is when big things can happen in normal circumstances.

What I meant is more about the capacity of the Soviet army to hit hard on a limited scale even without high numbers. Which might still be enough to suprise and unbalance a highly successful Axis opponent.

@crackaces: yes, and it makes a lot of sense. Those are simple maths really. Of course, that number might also depend on the state of the Axis army. But it is understood that number is a rule of thumb
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