The Japanese from a newbie’s perspective

[Mercutio]

Well played wevilc. If you like, I am pretty new and barely started a MP match. I would recommend playing all the axis (and/or allies) vs a human though.

[wevilc]

Thank you! Yes, playing a human opponent is something I will do but, being a cautious soul, I first want to grasp some more of the basics. I only learned right at the end of that game, for example, that not all HQ units sre the same! Egad! That’s just one of many points you pros already know. I am going to play the Japs one more time, I think, then it’s on to one of the allies, maybe the soviets, I dunno.

[wevilc]

My 3rd and final go with the Japs is reaching the critcal phase just before Pearl Harbour and the assault on Malaya, Singapore and the NEI and I have a question about amphibious assaults. When is it best to use long range as opposed to short range assault craft? And do the troops suffer from being at sea for a long time? I think I read that somewhere but now I can’t find it.

This game will only differ from the last one in that I plan to attack the Soviets in 1943 rather than 1944 to see what effect that has on the German campaign in Russia. Yes, I really am that boring [:)]

Then it’s onto, I dunno, the Russkies probably.

[Mercutio]

Long range amphibious can use cruise to go a lot farther in a turn. Even normal movement is farther than the normal ones. The short range ones lose supply each turn while the long ones don't.

Also, you realize that China also borders Russia? You could move the units you used to capture China and just keep going. Well, maybe 4-6 units as it is rather restricted with roads.

[wevilc]

Thanks Mercutio. Much obliged.

For three reasons, I prefer the Manchuria campaign:

1 I want to capture Vladivostok
2 I want to defend Manchuria and don’t plan to invade, since tying up Soviet units is the aim and the further away from their European front the better.
3 keeping going would have the Japs fighting further and further from their own turf along extended lines of supply with no rail network.

Funnily enough, in my last game, the British tied up units on and just on my side of the Himalayas. I never actually saw them, only being aware of their presence only because of their attrition losses which, for reasons unknown, are transmitted through the fog of war (which, of course, I keep switched on)

[Mercutio]

Hi wevilc

1) You can still do that. Once you take the Chinese second capital it is all choke at that point. Actually even before that, you can divert some units away, but the final push should be a fraction of your original Chinese army.
2) OK, that's fine
3) An HQ in a city gives decent supply. It is getting there. That would also require the USSR to send troops to stop you from walking in. Or you can take 1/2 to a year to extract those units from the depths of China. It is a call you have to make. I am not saying I am right.

[wevilc]

ORIGINAL: Mercutio

Hi wevilc

1) You can still do that. Once you take the Chinese second capital it is all choke at that point. Actually even before that, you can divert some units away, but the final push should be a fraction of your original Chinese army.
2) OK, that's fine
3) An HQ in a city gives decent supply. It is getting there. That would also require the USSR to send troops to stop you from walking in. Or you can take 1/2 to a year to extract those units from the depths of China. It is a call you have to make. I am not saying I am right.

TBH Mercutio, I still don’t understand properly how supply works. Along with many other things, like why some of my units have 1% morale for instance. So, I appreciate your comments. Still, I think I can achieve everything I want by fighting in Manchuria. I probably have surplus land units once China falls but I am reluctant to open further new fronts, whether into Russia via Urumchi or into India through Burna.

[Mercutio]

What I said was speculative. All good.

[wevilc]

Did anyone ever try out not attacking Pearl Harbour? While it is certainly fun to knock out some US capital ships the operation diverts the combined fleet from home waters where it is needed to support the attacks on Malaya and the Dutch East Indies. I fancy those US ships will probably show up anyway in the Java sea where rubbing them out should not be a problem. Might try it out.

[Wushuki]

ORIGINAL: wevilc

I raised the difficulty of ASW on another thread. In this game, I have researched ASW to level 4 and have 3 fully upgraded destroyers patrolling the convoy routes. This seems to work very well. Sunk two subs so far and kept the routes open too.

Yes, i realized as well by now it is not that bad. I thought that the sub upgrades gave them +1 to naval defense as well, but this is not the case. My own bad results were most likely due to not recognizing when there were stormy seas, which greatly reduce naval combat results.

So you have 4 answers to subs: high ASW destroyers, torpedo boats, escort carriers and maritime bombers. Maritime bombers and carriers can help with high sea spotting as well. All in all they are not too hard to deal with, especially late game.

[wevilc]

Yes, the subs are much more manageable than I thought. Certainly for the Japs, anyway, as their convoy routes are short and go through narrow seas where subs can’t easily hide.

[wevilc]

I really should move on but I am hooked on trying to play the Japs perfectly. I keep getting snagged on the amphibious ops that follow or accompany the Pearl Harbour attack. I have been finding it difficult to co-ordinate the various arms and have encountered obstacles resulting largely from not knowing the rules.

But I have at least got China sorted. Just induced a surrender in May ‘43, which will free up forces for Russia and/or India. I find a giant pincer works best, expanding in the South and wheeling in on Chunquing while chewing away in the extreme north. The centre can be held with comparatively little and it’s a good thing the AI does not appreciate the value of withdrawing from pockets before they close.

Now I quite fancy playing Poland, France, British India and China, just to get a look at things from the other side.

I think I could happily handle the Japs in a multi-player if there is one going and someone can explain how they work.

[Hartmann]

Like you did before, I'm doing my first game as Japan.

I am kind of an SC veteran (bought the original SC on day one), but became disenchanted with the series when it went "tiles". I returned for WIE, but didn't play that one since quite some time since release. I also didn't buy WAW until just now as the smaller scale bugged me.

Anyhow: I just reached the "oil embargo" phase and this is something I'm not familiar with. I tried to get amphibs ready for war since summer, but that might have been a big mistake as I just now found out they lose supply and readiness per turn - even waiting in port! I think I might try invading Phillipines with only one amphib landing craft, seize the northernmost port and then ship in the other units via normal transport (hoping that air cover from Taiwan is enough to keep the special unit alive). I plan on taking Brunei (Borneo) with paratroops from Saigon. Not sure what to do with the big force waiting in Japan: They seem to be meant for the Dutch East Indies, but it's soooo expensive to ship them over. Maybe I'll transport them to Vietnam instead and see if I go Thailand-Burma-India with them.
Otherwise I will do Pearl Harbour and MAYBE land with amphibs from Kwajalein. Also, Truk forces might go to Rabaul.

Any tips on how to stage the invasion of the Great East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere would be most welcome!

[wevilc]

I have a ton of suggestions, actually.

Max out research on things like amphibious warfare, logistics and industrial technology (to boost income). Also ASW. Accumulate MPPs in 1939, 40 and 41 as you need plenty to finance the amphibious ops. In that period I buy just one destroyer (maxed out with ASW capability as far as possible) and the three garrison units and one army corps that the collaborationist Nanjing govt. can build.

Assuming a December 1941 DoW and raid on PH, you need to be putting units (HQs, special forces, the odd army) into boats in Nov ‘41 so they are ready to land in the same turn as the PH raid. Remember to use long range transports where necessary. It should be possible to land in force in The Philippines and Malaya in Dec 41. Capture a port, put an HQ unit in it. Otherwise, supply will be a problem.

I send only two battleships and the subs to Hawaii with the carriers, keeping back the cruisers, destroyers and remaining battleships to protect the amphibious ops. The air units you start with and acquire by Nov ‘41 are not required but you need the naval units to deal with the Dutch East Indies navy and US subs (which turn up surprisingly quickly).

The whole thing needs detailed planning with each unit considered and directed specifically.

After the Philippines and Malaya fall, you take Batavia, thus pocketing the Dutch East Indies. I take Borneo too and hold it with two garrison units,

Then I go on the defensive, fighting only in the confined space of the Java sea where I have numerous bases to house the fleet (which includes the carriers). I use the two subs in silent mode as an early warning system (with indifferent results TBH).

[Hartmann]

Thanks for your suggestions. As I'm already in December 41, I can't use the same strategy as you (at least not in this game anymore). I was initially focusing on China and had researched ALOT of stuff for that (infantry, ground, command, fighters etc - no tanks/armored warfare as the Chinese mountains don't seem fitting for that). I also prioritzed industry, production, logistics and espionage, though.

I did no research in amphib and ASW - I hope I won't regret that. I was thinking 11 amphibs would be enough and I plan to counter the subs with torpedo boats and marine bombers.

I produced one carrier, and a complement of fighters, tac bombers and medium bombers for the war in China. (So I still need to produce something to counter the sub threat).

ALL MY SHIPS ARE AT PEARL. I somehow didn't consider that the DIE would have a navy ...

I still have to declare war now or else the US will declare first. I will reach Brunei with my paras, but not reach the Philippines in the same turn as my parked amphib is low on supply (and new ones will only start next turn). The army group that spawned on mainland Japan is in regular transports and I think I therefore will have to commit them to Indochina->Western China ->Burma.

Let's see how this turns out. If I fail, it will at least provide a learning experience for my next game.

Edit:

- Pearl seems to be quite a success thus far: All ships in the harbours are destroyed and I also managed to damage the marines stationed there. Don't know whether my two (belated) amphibs from Kwajalein will make it, though.

- Philippines was an utter fail. My single out-of-supply amphib was not in range to land and the other two were committed just now (i.e. too late as they had to wait a turn). Next turn my approaching amphib was diminished by an American CL down to two strength points and had to flee in disgrace. I managed to sink that CL with my two subs and a Val out of Taiwan. Interestingly, it was effective even though I had only upgraded ground attack (to 2), but not naval. Also luckily, I realized I still had the Yamato in Japan which now is bound to go to the Philippines. I also ordered three torpedo boats.

- Paras landing at Brunei worked, they are now scheduled for mopping up oil fields in Borneo.

- Out-of-supply amphib from Truk didn't make it to Rabaul. I hope Rabaul will not be guarded.

- I don't know what to do about the Dutch East Indies and Malaya - not good.

- The big army group I transported from Japan (in regular transports instead of amphibs) went to Hanoi and are now being sent to Kumming, then Burma. (I hope that small dotted line from Hanoi to Kumming is a road/trail?)

I think the most important thing I learned is that one really has to save up on MPP for the amphib operations.

[Mercutio]

You need amphibious as it allow more concurrent assault boats, better survivability logistics to make them cheaper to use
Long range transports for Dutch East Indies, Philipines normal ones.

I usually send 2 SF and HQ to DEI and the same for the Philippines.
I take Port Moresby, Guadalcanal, Midway, Borneo, Sakaska whatever, Guam, The UK island in the Marshalls all in one shot.

Then send troops from Thailand and those 2 SF units in the Borneo area to Singapore.

1 unit ready by Hong Kong to round out the early grab.

[wevilc]

Yes, you need a ton of MPPs. But you don’t need the entire navy for Pearl! Just the carriers and minimal escort vessels. Although there is oil in Borneo it does not yield much in MPPs, unlike the DEI. I capture Borneo partly so as to have a couple more naval bases. My ships spend most of the time in port so the more bases the better. Then you can reinforce and upgrade and they are less vulnerable.

I don’t think transports work too well in combo with amphibious ops. True, they are cheaper, but they can only unload in controlled ports. And sometimes the unloading takes two turns which is very bad news.

I agree with you about tanks. The Japs are fine without them. I am building some now, in late ‘43, but that is because I want to get the sovies emboiled in Manchuri and they might just work there. Pretty much everywhere else in this theatre, they don’t.

[Hartmann]

Yeah, I think next time I will use long range amphibs to get the army group from Japan to DEI. I also will definitely not use my whole fleet for Pearl anymore.

I tried to use amphibs together with regular transports to save on MPP (this strategy usually worked for me when doing Sea Lion in WIE: take e.g. Portsmouth, then use that port for normal transports). Seems not a good idea in the Pacific where they have to go longer routes.

And yeah, of course I took Hongkong at least right when declaring war.

[Hartmann]

Do you guys declare war on Thailand (or diplo them) or leave them alone?

How much investment into amphib research is recommended for Japan - is going to level 2 enough for the early 1942 invasions?

[Mercutio]

I get them to at least 2 in amphib research.
Thailand will join you as will Indochina. Invading them is like Germany invading Hungary, Bulgaria and Romania