Retail and or Online What do You Think

David Heath · Post by **David Heath** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 9:10 am

Hi Guys

We are currently working on opening offices in both the United Kingdom and Australia by the end of September. We pretty much working on a system to sell our games in two styles. One to have our hardcore wargames sold through our online store and games that we feel have a more mass market feel to be sold in retail stores. What does everyone think of that.

David

Von Rom · Post by **Von Rom** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 9:23 am

David Heath wrote:Hi Guys

We are currently working on opening offices in both the United Kingdom and Australia by the end of September. We pretty much working on a system to sell our games in two styles. One to have our hardcore wargames sold through our online store and games that we feel have a more mass market feel to be sold in retail stores. What does everyone think of that.

David

Good idea David.

Although, I would suggest also offerig a few hard-core wargames through your retailers as well. Those stores will soon develop a reputation for stocking good, quality wargames, and people will go out of their way to go and buy them.

Wargamers will stop at nothing to get their wargames.

Mac_MatrixForum · Post by **Mac_MatrixForum** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 9:50 am

If that means you will be selling directly online yourself in Europe and you'll get more money for each game to yourself then I'm all to it and will purchase every game directly from you.

I regularly order stuff online, although only from Finland at the moment since I'm too lazy to get a credit card. It doesn't matter to me if a game is sold in a regular shop or not. If I order online I usually order a few games to lessen the impact of the shipping in the price. And knowing that more money goes to the people behind the product instead of those merely moving or selling it would make me pleased. I can support good game stores by buying other games anyway.

Putting a hard-core game or two in the shops wouldn't hurt either since many people do not follow or know about the website or know much about computer games in general. I must say here in Finland we are blessed by a games magazine that reviews fairly all these kinds of games as well.

Belisarius · Post by **Belisarius** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 10:11 am

I don't really know.

Ofcourse you should put the mainstream games out through retailers. Offering hard-core wargames through online purchase only is perhaps to say that the mainstream buyers will never consider purchasing a wargame off the shelf? Something about the whole "awareness" of the game title...?

If you're happy with on-line sales figures I guess it doesn't matter, I understand the margin on the hardcore wargames is narrower and I will purchase the games online anyway. But it'd be *nice* to see some retail display for your fav games.

Pawlock · Post by **Pawlock** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 12:31 pm

David Heath wrote:Hi Guys

We are currently working on opening offices in both the United Kingdom and Australia by the end of September. We pretty much working on a system to sell our games in two styles. One to have our hardcore wargames sold through our online store and games that we feel have a more mass market feel to be sold in retail stores. What does everyone think of that.

David

Very good news, retail is the way to go for future expansion IMO as it brings wargames to the as yet future wargamers who dont know it yet.

Game and PC world are 2 of the UK's main sellers I would imagine, and if you can crack them I believe the outlook is very good.

btw I did see UV in PC world not so long ago, so obviously you are getting there.

wodin · Post by **wodin** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 3:07 pm

David Heath wrote:Hi Guys

We are currently working on opening offices in both the United Kingdom and Australia by the end of September. We pretty much working on a system to sell our games in two styles. One to have our hardcore wargames sold through our online store and games that we feel have a more mass market feel to be sold in retail stores. What does everyone think of that.

David

Any Jobs going?

Retired due to a disability but I would take on a job with you!

Highly skilled office worker.

Was Admin Officer for H M Customs & Excise.

And if that doesnt stop you from giving me a job I dont know what will!

Though the office should be in Liverpool (where I am) as its the European Capital Culture 2008

Wodin

AbsntMndedProf · Post by **AbsntMndedProf** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 3:16 pm

Anything that exposes more folks to Matrix' games is definitely a good thing, IMHO!

Eric Maietta

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:58 pm

David exactly what does "offices" imply?

As I see it there is only one hassle with your business being based in the US where customers in Europe or far distant places like Aus are concerned, and that is the item has to be shipped internationally to get to them.

If a customer was to order game X from Matrix Games, and it was assumed Matrix Games routinely shipped a percentage of ALL new stock to its warehouses (read "office"), then the game would end up originating locally even if ordered conventionally from the real source in the US online.

That's possible isn't it? (I ask because I am unknowing where matters of trade are concerned).

This "office" would really only need to be a conventional small business location with maybe two routine staff members at most. They would basically only serve to process and move stock. And they could likely be local individuals already contributing to Matrix Games efforts electronically.

I mean if you produce X copies of the newest "thing" and Europe generally provides evidence that European customers routinely make up 25% of sales, then I would think just shipping 25% of the first run of a game to the European "office" would be logical.

If these "offices" are operations that routinely sell other than Matrix Games goods, then I would have to assume they would have to order their own stock and leave it at that.

But I think there is merit to have a wholely Matrix Games owned "office" on the other side of the pond. Because clearly that pond is intrusive in your sales to date.

Just watch out how fast you expand. I was never so sad to see the collapse of the local games store chain here based in Toronto. The Gamesalot store was THE place for games during the 80's before computer gaming had the draw it now enjoys. But the owner went and opened stores all through the city, when in truth there was only enough actual market to support 1-3 stores if at all.
The Gamesalot business is today quite dead.

I will say David, if you can sell one game through the officies, you should sell all of them through the offices. That is to say, if you have an office in Europe sell the entire line through it. Why limit yourself to just doing it with some of your stock.

Chances are a lot of your customers (read long time grognard fans) will only be waiting for those "hard core" games. And a lot of those fans are not US citizens.

Charles2222 · Post by **Charles2222** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 7:55 pm

Seems like THE perfect approach to me. I will say, however, that despite any pre-concieved notions to the contrary, you should regard CL as mass-market appeal

Oh, I just noticed we have a sleeping emoticon now. I'm sure it'll be used in the AOW forum to it's fullest extent.

David Heath · Post by **David Heath** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:27 pm

What this will mean is that we will have an office and a warehouse in Europe and Australia for gamers to contact. It also will mean we would mean that the store will handle ALL sales and gamers can select the store in their area and it would ship from that warehouse lowering the cost of overseas shipping.

David

Fallschirmjager · Post by **Fallschirmjager** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:52 pm

I would sell everything you make through stores and the website

From working in a game store I saw the power of buying games in a whim

You will get sales from people who walked into the store uninterested in your game and walk out of the store having purchased it

If someone walks into a store with an interest in WW2 and CL catches their eye...they have a good chance of buying it having never seen anything about CL

Thats my opinion

Fredflak · Post by **Fredflak** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:57 pm

Fallschirmjager wrote:I would sell everything you make through stores and the website

From working in a game store I saw the power of buying games in a whim

You will get sales from people who walked into the store uninterested in your game and walk out of the store having purchased it

If someone walks into a store with an interest in WW2 and CL catches their eye...they have a good chance of buying it having never seen anything about CL

Thats my opinion

I agree with that, and am a living proof.

I got Uncommon Valor that way, discovered it in the store and grabbed it. I didnt even know this web site existed before I got the game. So having games out in stores not only allows you to sell them, but it also makes your name known and shows that you're out there and exist.

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 10:29 pm

Behold, I am the mighty fickle "impulse" buyer

I buy almost everything I buy from soup to nuts, on impulse.

Fred98 · Post by **Fred98** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:22 am

1. One day I will have cable and in the future we will all download games.

2. But currently, I am happy to buy on line, rather than a in store. If a new wargame is released, word soon spreads around the community, so I don't need to visit a store to see whats available.

riverbravo · Post by **riverbravo** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:35 am

David Heath wrote:Hi Guys

We are currently working on opening offices in both the United Kingdom and Australia by the end of September. We pretty much working on a system to sell our games in two styles. One to have our hardcore wargames sold through our online store and games that we feel have a more mass market feel to be sold in retail stores. What does everyone think of that.

David

I think its great.

BrubakerII · Post by **BrubakerII** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:20 pm

I agree with Joe in that I think the future lie with online sales - whether this is of benefit to consumers or not. However, in the meantime, I welcome Matrix's decision to create an export link in both the UK and Australia. If commercially viable, I think the company will benefit from having games available in stores as well.

Working in sales/warehousing etc myself and knowing the costs involved I think it wise for you guys to start small and work from what I term a 'kitchen operation' but I am sure you have figured that out already. Looks like Ross is about to have his workload increased

If I can help out inmy small part of the world please call out.

regards

Brubaker

Hertston · Post by **Hertston** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:25 pm

David Heath wrote:Hi Guys

We are currently working on opening offices in both the United Kingdom and Australia by the end of September. We pretty much working on a system to sell our games in two styles. One to have our hardcore wargames sold through our online store and games that we feel have a more mass market feel to be sold in retail stores. What does everyone think of that.

David

I'd do some very thorough market research.

Personally, I think there's a significant market for retail "hardcore" wargames - probably more so than much of the stuff you describe as having more mass appeal. The trick though is where to sell it.. specialist gaming stores (GAME is about the only large chain) are probably not a good choice any more. They have noticably shifted their emphasis from a well balanced PC game selection to more console games, DVD sales and PC "deals" like the one with EA that means yoyr games get/will get minimal exposure. Adults just don't go into GAME stores now, except with their kids. PC World is a much better option for shifting copies, I would think.

You might want to consider a different type of retail outlet. Maybe something like WH Smith would work, but personally I'd at least think about large bookstores. I may be totally off the mark, but I think a display selection of Matrix Wargames in, say, the "Waterstones" chain would do very well for both you and them if you could come to a deal.

Blunderbuss · Post by **Blunderbuss** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 7:59 pm

Hertston wrote:I'd do some very thorough market research.
Adults just don't go into GAME stores now, except with their kids. PC World is a much better option for shifting copies, I would think.

I most certainly DO shop at GAME stores, as well as PC World. In fact, I will visit any shop I find that sells PC games. Since I bought this computer in March, I've purchased software from ASDA, GAME, HMV, Battlefront.com, CHIPS, PC World and Toys 'R Us. I just like to shop around for the best deal.

Firefly · Post by **Firefly** » Sun Sep 07, 2003 3:11 am

Blunderbuss wrote:I most certainly DO shop at GAME stores, as well as PC World.

[AOL] Me too [/AOL], in fact I'm far more likely to go into Game than PC World, as the nearest PC World is 30 miles away and the nearest Game is 200 yards, across the road from Virgin. PC World are run by the evil Dixons' empire, anyway, so they'll probably just spend all their time trying to sell you an extended warranty with your game.

Firefly · Post by **Firefly** » Sun Sep 07, 2003 3:26 am

Serious reply to David. It's generally held that consumers in the UK are less willing to buy by mail or online than North American customers, wargamers are probably more willing than the average punter, as that's the only way to get things like miniatures and boardgames for most of them, but by going online only you may miss out on the impulse buyer, the sort of people who might buy a wargame if they see one in the shop, but probably wouldn't go to the trouble of seeking one out. How many people this would account for and if it's worth the expense I' ll have to leave to you and your market researchers.